If I'm correct this is a 1910P
Three digit serial with a star at the end.
Barrel is about six inches from looks of it.
Triple lock.
A value would also be appreciated





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It is a .44 Hand Ejector first model or Triple Lock as you noted. It was well before S & W assigned model names.

It has the appearance of being original/unrefinished, and an aftermarket front and rear sight combination that I have not seen before. Can you post other views of the rear sight? Is there extra milling/material removed or holes tapped in the top strap to fit it?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It looks tapped. Done rather well it appears.






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It appears to be a professional modification for someone who was serious about target shooting. Someone here has probably seen the rear sight setup and will be along to comment. Have you shot it?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

No itching to though :-)


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Beauty!

Might want to move this to the Hand Ejectors forum for more familiarity with this set-up.

If you pull off the left side stock you should find a date stamped on the 'toe' of the grip frame. The star following the serial # on the butt indicates it went back to the factory for refinish and/or rework on the date you find.

The rear sight operates like the rear sight on many rifles: elevation is achieved by pushing the sliding riser forward. It's a principle I've never seen used on a handgun sight nor have I ever seen that style sight.

But it appears to have been made for that size revolver. It may be an after market add-on sight prototype from back in the day or one that didn't sell well or last long because it's so obtrusive.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Aside from the BHP,the only handgun with a tangent sight that I've seen.I'd venture to say that the sight is one of a kind.

Welcome to the Forum.

It looks like a former owner opened up the factory "dimple" rear sight notch to a square. Then, the adjustable rear was added later.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Very interesting sight modification. The Browning Hi Power offered a tangent rear sight back in the day.
Artillery Lugers,and some pistols fitted with shoulder stocks used tangent sights also.
Bill

Any idea what year this was made?


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With no markings the sight may have been done by a genius with a milling machine, a lathe and a plan.

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Front sight and squeeze

A three digit serial number would be first year production, 1908. As far as value, this is a classic example of beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. An unmodified, factory refinished triple lock is a $1000 +/- gun. To some collectors, the modified sights lower the value; to others, it may increase it. Personally, I like that rear sight.

Bob

Wow...1908, wouldn't have guessed that due to the shape it's in. And yea I really dig the sights, they look military to me.


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Are you sure that the serial number is 3 digits long, and you are not confusing this with an assembly number? Usually, the early Triple Locks have stocks that lack medallions (until around 1910), and I see yours has medallions. Of course, the stocks could have been changed later, possibly at the time of refinish.

Credit goes to Hondo44 for the information below, which might prove helpful:

SERIAL NUMBERS:

Here are the 6 (or 7 on Triple Locks) pre war fixed sight frame serial # locations which are also the locations remaining after WW II thru ~1956 to look for (not including the 3 stamped serial # locations for pre war and early post war Transitional models with pre war target sights):

1. Gun butt - or forestrap on I frames/single shots with grips that cover the butt

2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud

3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight

4. Extractor star - backside

5. Cylinder - rear face

6. Right stock only* - on back (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required), penciled on Triple Locks

7. Mid-lock cam plate – “Triple Locks” only, in any caliber (up to all 5 digits).
* Stamped since 1857, stock #s, almost exclusively on right panel only, changed to penciled #s c. 1900 and back to stamped #s in 1929. Pre war penciled S/Ns are in the top half of the stock near the backstrap and read with the stock oriented with the back edge down.

I'll have to find the other places. I found it in both of these.




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And found it back of the star and rear of cylinder




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Okay, it does appear you own Triple Lock with serial number 889. I would pull the grips and see if "889" is penciled in the right grip. Having said that, I don't know if it would prove or disprove anything as it is always possible that "889" was penciled into a replacement set of grips and/or the penciled "889" may not be discernable after all these years. Of course, if another number is legible within the right grip, it proves later replacement. The grips on your Triple Lock are known as pre-war N frame walnut grips and they were used in N frame revolvers long after the Triple Lock was discontinued about 1915. Attached is a photograph of my Target Model Triple Lock that shipped in June of 1910. I believe this is what your revolver may have been originally fitted with. But, then again, when it comes to Smith & Wesson, never say never!

Attached Images

	20160918_073402.jpg (82.9 KB, 108 views)
	20160918_073426.jpg (87.3 KB, 98 views)

Scorpius, welcome tp the forum. Your post is generating a lot of comments and interest. It may be just me, but the sights seem European in design (German or Austrian, maybe--note above comments about HP and '08)). A SWHF letter would be very interesting as you TL may have headed overseas from the factory.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

The 3 digit serial # does not necessarily indicate first year production. And if the stocks number to the gun, it indicates 1910 or later production because of the gold plated medallions.

The rear sight is not a tangent sight and the more I look at it, the more I think it's a one off hand made sight.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Ok guys you got my curiosity so I pulled them off hoping to find a stamp or something. These look almost hand made if you ask me. Would there be any chance this was done by s&w?

And yea I cleaned it up but the one thing it looks like some type of thin strip of something is on the sight legs where they touch the frame. Very thin but figured I'd leave it alone as it did a good job of not allowing rubbing, or least that's what I figured so best not scrub thinking it's just crud.




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And look at the shine :-)



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The crude checkering on the sides of the rear sight says to me that this is a home made bubba job, plus it's just overall ugly. Damn shame as the rest of the gun is very nice. With the sight off it looks like this was originally a fixed sight gun. I'd leave that thing off and fill the screw holes with plugs, and pin in a new front blade of appropriate height.

Or perhaps just very old. I doubt bubba could do so well. But beauty is in the eye of beholder. Me personally I think it throws a military look to it. Plus easily adjusted to get me dead center vs fixed sights.

Think I'll do the s&w letter. Heck would be interesting to see what they say.


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I see what you mean about the European appearance, but I collect German & Austrian drillings and verlings and have several Haenel & Schilling converted 1888 sporters. I don't believe this sight would have left a German or Austrian shop without knurling and I'm sure it wouldn't have left with that knurling - not 100 yrs. ago or even today. IMHO (without touching it), the sight looks very well designed and executed, but then poorly knurled. It's almost an oxymoron. What a Great, Intresting Revolver though!
P.S., I don't think anybody named "Bubba" made that sight.

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Jeb

That's what I thought, originally, except red9 in post #13, above, stated that all 3-digit serial numbers shipped by 1908. As S & W did not ship sequentially, it is likely some 3-digit serial numbers shipped well after 1908, increasing the probability the stocks are original to this firearm. Conversely, due to demand, it is possible that 3-digit serial numbered Triple Locks shipped non-sequentially, but all 1910 or before.

Comments?

Any known 3-digit Triple Locks out there having shipped after 1910 and/or with known original stocks with medallions?

I think its BEAUTIFUL, to me it looks like a two part job, whoever built that sight was a true craftsman but someone else appears to have modified the checkering on the sides of the sight. Its possible the checkering performed by the artist that built the sight wasn't quite up "Bubba's" fumble fingers and he decided to modify it to be more easily adjusted. All of the other work on that sight seems far above the talent required to hack those other cuts in.

I perhaps missed it, but if you didn't find the serial number on the barrel, it's inside the ejector rod housing-------waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up front where the ejector rod knob lives (likely will be accompanied by a B).

Ralph Tremaine

In post # 16, the OP posted a picture of the SN that is found in the barrel shroud.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Ahhh so that's a B in front of it!


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I'll be interested to know if the gun shoots high even with the rear sight all the way down. My hunch is it will.

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Join the NRA today

This is all way above my station in life, but I think this revolver is really nice.

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Just a shooter

[QUOTE=mrcvs;139475157]That's what I thought, originally, except red9 in post #13, above, stated that all 3-digit serial numbers shipped by 1908.

In my post, I indicated manufactured, not shipped. This was based on SCSW indicating that 1909 production started at number 2050.

Bob

That leads to a good question. Were grips fitted at the time of production or the time of shipment?

So I wrote up a letter with all the markings I can find and details around the target sight, added some pictures and filled out the form. The form will go out to the historical foundation tomorrow. Hope they come back with some interesting details on it.
Anyone have an idea how many weeks or months it'll take before I get it back? Any example letters you can share? Does a letter add any value ? I suppose $75 value perhaps, or lots more if it sold to someone famous or had some interesting history. Not holding my breath for that.

I'm also curious about the stamp on the cylinder hinge. Why is it and the frame portion both stamped 2777 when the barrel ,bottom grip, extractor and cylinder are all stamped 889*?


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I got a letter on a Victory model last year. I believe it took two weeks.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I don't know anything about these old revolvers or the sight, but that thing is neat!

if you don't like the checkering job, I'm sure you could take the sight to a good machinist or gunsmith and have it ground down, recheckered and reblued.

Excellent find. I hope the sights work out well for you.

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an actual conservative

It's a first for me to see that elevator rear sight, home-made or not. I'd agree with the earlier statement that it is not a tangent sight. I'd leave it alone. The metal checkering might be crude, but so what?

Took it to the range today. 25 yards with factory 200 grain semi jacketed HP. Now not the best grouping but had I been doing my part better..... note middle low is two rounds



This one I focused much better on for the first two shots and they hit near middle. I think the sights are just fine and properly adjusted and me doing my part would all be center mass. Note two together were my first concentrating rounds.




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Got my letter today! Looks like the company it shipped to had a deep history in our countries beginnings also from what a quick internet search revealed!




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My TL, # 1330, shipped July 5, 1910.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

In case you haven't come across this in your internet search yet, here are parts of a company history of E.K.Tryon published in 1911. I found this researching a Model 1896 that shipped there in May 1900.

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	EKTryon1911-2.jpg (82.5 KB, 49 views)
	EKTryon1911-3.jpg (71.2 KB, 42 views)
	EKTryon1911-4.jpg (87.5 KB, 42 views)
	EKTryon1911-5.jpg (83.4 KB, 46 views)

Pretty cool history there absalom, thanks.
Interestingly they say it came back to them for whatever reason. Do they not share who sent it in for some reason?


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Good information on the letter, and it explains why the gun has the style of stocks it has (gold medallion type started in 1910). Also, another example of an early SN gun that 'should' have shipped in the first year or so of production but sat on a factory shelf for years before selling.

I see no one answered your question above. The 2777 is called an assembly number; major parts were initially assembled and these were used to put those parts back together at final assembly/fitting. The stocks were stamped with the SN for the same reason. Enjoy!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The SWHF Historian does not have unlimited access to factory records. The Foundation is organizing and scanning available factory documentation (correspondence, service/repair records) about a decade at a time. I think they have done 1931-'40 but not sure if they have gotten (or will ever be able to get) back to the 1910 decade. You can certainly contact them to see if you are interested.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Since it has a star by the butt serial # for a factory rework, it mostly likely has a date stamped for the rework on the left side of the grip frame near the front 'toe', under the grip.

That date will help the SWHS locate any factory documentation for the rework if you choose to request it. Hopefully the date is in the 1931-41 period.

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Jim
S&WCA #819