Hi Folks,

I just purchased, on Gunbroker.com, a Smith & Wesson M1917. It's serial number is a low 4 digit: 36** From what I can tell, this pistol is in excellent original condition. The original finish is at least 90% with most loss due to a couple of scratches and spots of wear on the grip straps. The pistol has the beautiful swirled and serrated hammer found, on the early production pistols (not sure where they stopped). Markings are crisp. Grips are excellent with no cracks, just one small chips and normal scratches and compressions from use. I believe this pistol is in its original configuration. I paid $1199 for it, which was the exact reserve price! I hope I didn't get skunked! My Dad's M1917, which he left me, was stolen a few years ago & this is the replacement! Pictures are attached! I appreciate your opinions!!!

Sincerely,

Doolittle

Attached Images

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	Serial# 3633.jpg (30.2 KB, 175 views)

I think you did quite well. It looks completely original to me.

You could check for the matching serial # penciled on the backside of the right stock panel.

The hammers with concentric grooves were used exclusively until ~#15,000, then sporadically until ~# 20,000, after which they are no longer seen.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Wow, nice gun. $1199 is a lot of cake, but I guess that is the going rate.
Nice snag. Best

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Very nice. Congratulations, and sorry to hear of the loss of the one that you inherited. Hope that this makes up for it!! That is a beauty.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Shouldn't this have the concave grips for a gun in this serial number range. This one is 7973.

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SWCA 1932 SWHF 135

Correct, the early grips were concave, and I think also up to the +/- 15000 SN range, like the grooved hammers.

Agreed, that's why I asked for grip serial number.

Concave grip tops were used exclusively until ~#15,000, then sporadically until ~# 20,000, after which they are no longer seen.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Welcome to the Forum, doolittle. Sorry you lost your heirloom gun, but this one is really nice.

It seems that someone in years past posted pictures of another early 1917 that had convex grips instead of concave ones and they did number to the handgun.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Very nice 1917. One of these are on my short list. Gotta have one to go with my WWI Luger!

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Get off my lawn!

Price paid is at the top of the market, especially w/o the correct stocks, in my opinion. If the seller said it was all original, it isn't, and I would return it, if I was the buyer. Just my opinion, of course. I'll have better examples, on my table at Tulsa in April, for less money. Ed.

Thanks for all the responses. It turns out that the grips have no numbers on them at all, so they must be replacement grips, probably added by the soldier who cracked the originals?

The seller is allowing me out of the sale if I choose, or lowering the price to $1050, HIS COST. What advice do you guys have?

What would you do? I have not paid for the pistol yet.

Can't wait to hear your thoughts!

Doolittle

I would pass, if it were me. Even if it could be had for around $900, it's a shooter, not collectable you would want to display, in my opinion. Ed.

If I passed it would be because of the price. The grips don't bother me at all, and can be replaced. An old lead pencil from the 1950's can be used to number any grips to match anything you want. After a gun goes through a war or two, there's not much you can expect to read off the grips that was written in pencil a century ago. I picked up a 22XXX one that had been commercialized by Smith in the 1920's for under $400 a few months ago. It's almost as nice as the one you got. Some of these sellers must think their guns have 18 KT gold barrels for what they try to get for them.

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Dr. B

REALLY??? The Serial Numbers Were Written In Lead Pencil???
Is it possible that the original serial numbers could have been rubbed off in cleaning? It doesn't take much to rub off pencil lead, especially 100 year OLD pencil lead does it? Well then there's the question of the grips being convex instead of CONCAVE!

So basically, the owner could have bought some concave grips, written the original serial number in lead pencil, sold it to me and I would have never known? Geez Louise! Well I guess then that's a good reason to do business with reputable dealers isn't it my friends?

How much would a pair of old concave grips cost on the open market, and where the heck would one find them? I would buy them and NOT put a serial number on them for sure!!! What do yawl think???

Sincerely,

Doolittle

Yup, and a lot of mine are written in a very sloppy manner. Most are so faded that you have to use a LED light and have good eyes to see anything at all. I move my grips around so much from gun to gun, I really don't care what's on the back of them. I'm thinking a nice pair will cost you close to $200. May be a bit hard to find too. I actually like the grips that are on it.

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Dr. B

Would you PAY $1050 for the pistol as is?

Put a "want to buy" ad here on the forum in the WTB section. Who knows, someone may need the ones you have and be willing to do a trade. Also keep a check on EBay.

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Get off my lawn!

The gun is really nice. I might pay the $1050 if it was one I was looking for.

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Dr. B

When searching for penciled serial numbers on these older stocks the trick is to use an ultraviolet light.

In a darkened room, start by looking straight down at the reverse side of the right grip. Then, with the light pointed at the grip move the light out about 12 inches at a 12 o'clock position (keep aimed at the grip) and follow around in a circular manner with the light. Try looking at the grip from an angle. Knock yourself out. Either the numbers will start to be visible or they won't.

Try a few more trick and tests of your own, but unless years of oil saturation has released the graphite from the wood, even if the wood is darkened you can usually get a visual on a few numbers, most times ...on a nicer quality gun ... you can usually get a good visual on all the numbers. If the grips weren't oil saturated but just darkened, they numbers show up much more clearly.

On a New Model 3, shipped to VL&A in Chicago in 1904 I found not only the serial number but the signature of the owner on oil darkened wood stocks. The owner turned out to be the owner and creator of one of the largest Department type stores in Chicago. I would have much preferred it be Teddy Roosevelt's signature but I'm, happy with a find like that that as I did not have anything prior to the UV examination.

PS: buy a GOOD quality UV light, or a Blood Tracker flashlight at the sporting goods store. You will likely only find LED UV simulator type flashlights like the blood tracker. There are many others. The $3.99 priced, shipped from China on ebay, won't do it.

LEDs are not true Ultraviolet light, rather they simulate UV light. If you buy a cheap LED UV the results will be much less than the higher quality LED UV simulator flashlight.

When I have a tough nut to crack (work related) i use the 120 volt plug-in type true UV lamp that lights up a speck of dust in total darkness like it was a charged radium dial on a watch.

It's the old UV lamp, when plugged in takes about 5 minutes to warm up. (yes, I'm exaggerating but not by much).

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Doolittle:

I think you want the gun. You have already knocked $149 off of he price,and it looks like a great shooter, whether or not the grips are original. While not rare, you don't see these up for sale everyday either. If you have the money and want the gun, go ahead and buy it. I have gotten some really good deals in my time, and have sometimes paid too much also. One thing I can't remember anyone mentioning: what is the bore like? If you are buying a shooter, it should have a decent bore. Many handguns of this vintage were fired with corrosive ammo, and not cared for, and have rough bores. Also, many have great bores. I would ask, and maybe get a photo.

I might add that just a couple of days ago, I had the stocks off of a Colt 1917, and it had the serial number penciled on both stocks. They matched the gun alright, but have been crudely "hand checkered" and are really "quaint". But the almost 100 year old pencil numbers are there.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I guess I would ask what makes this gun more desirable to you than others that are out there.....the grips, the finish the serial number. Unless it is exactly or almost excactly what I want I would keep looking. I had the chance to pick up a commercial 1917 and I have posted on it in other threads so i won't toss up a picture here, but it is not quite what I wanted.....but very close. The price is not exacatly what I wanted to pay either so with those to variables colliding I passed. I will probably regret it but that is the way things work out sometimes. In my case I am passing on the gun because of a 75 dollar difference in what I might want to pay for it not being exactly what I wanted. However, if it were exactly what i wanted I would pay the full asking prices.......just my convoluted way of thinking, good luck with your decision.