|
|
03-04-2017, 11:52 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
No Model Number
I have an old 357 and I am trying to identify the model number and approximant vintage, no model number on yoke
Hand eject
Butt strap serial is 619XXstar
Ejector rod shroud serial is B 619XX
Barrel says S. & W. 357 Magnum
4'' Barrel
Sights adjustable
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks Bob
|
The Following 10 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-04-2017, 12:23 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,780
Likes: 934
Liked 18,872 Times in 9,240 Posts
|
|
Welcome! You likely have a late prewar model named...the .357 Magnum. These started production in 1935 and could be linked to its original owner by paperwork and was named the Registered Magnum. Yours likely dates to 1939. If your gun does not have REG with four digits after it on the frame under where the barrel threads in, many refer to it as a "non-Registered Magnum". Many of these went to law enforcement agencies, Kansas City PD being one of them.
These are highly sought after collector's items, and the NRMs are actually less common than the RMs. We really need (want ) photos to give you more information on it.
A letter of authenticity would be a great idea for this one; the second link is for a Historical Foundation letter, and there is probably more information about it than the standard letter would provide:
Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come
Hope this is helpful.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
Last edited by murphydog; 03-04-2017 at 12:24 PM.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-04-2017, 12:26 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 22,758
Likes: 18,437
Liked 22,313 Times in 8,245 Posts
|
|
You may have a "Registered Magnum", the Pre-War model, dating to maybe around 1939. Is there any other letter prefix on the S/N? The B on the barrel flat would indicate a blued gun. It might be located far to the side of the #. When you open the cylinder is there a "Reg ###" stamped on the frame behind the yoke? The "star" (*) would indicate a return to the factory for some work, possibly a rebarrel or reblue or some other work. We need pictures to determine just what you might have. The Registerd Magnum was the Premier S&W and has considerable value. Look on the back side of the right hand grip panel and see if the same number as the grip S/N is stamped there. Please post several clear close up pictures.
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
|
03-04-2017, 12:28 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 15,082
Likes: 91,551
Liked 26,243 Times in 8,376 Posts
|
|
Is there a letter in front of the 6 on the butt? It could be far to the left.
|
03-04-2017, 01:18 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
Pics added
no letter in front of number on butt
no reg number by the yoke just the assembly numbers
|
The Following 12 Users Like Post:
|
cndrdk, codenamedave, Dan M, gkitch, Hunter Keith, jringo8769, JSW, montezumaz, quinn, RobertJ., shawn mccarver, shouldazagged |
03-04-2017, 04:38 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,780
Likes: 934
Liked 18,872 Times in 9,240 Posts
|
|
Yes, a pre-war non-Registered Magnum. A major find!
The 947 in photo 3 is likely the month/year when the revolver went back to S & W and was stamped with the star. This indicated major work (including but not always a refinish) and was placed so the gun could not be re-sold as new. The SWHF document search mentioned above may even tell you what was done.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-04-2017, 06:22 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
Thank you so much
Earlier to day I just wanted to know what type of frame the weapon had so I could buy some better grips, I had no idea how old this gun was only to find out it is rare and probably to valuable to shoot. i just seen one on gun broker just like mine listed at $9,999.00 unbelievable.
Don't know what to do now
Thank you guys for all the information
|
03-04-2017, 06:26 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,780
Likes: 934
Liked 18,872 Times in 9,240 Posts
|
|
It is an N frame, square butt, plenty of stock (grip) options.
Rest assured it has been shot before. Perfectly fine to run a box or two of .38 Specials through it if you are curious, but don't be surprised if this leads to more .38s, then some .357s...
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
|
03-04-2017, 06:31 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: High Desert Nevada
Posts: 656
Likes: 12
Liked 459 Times in 148 Posts
|
|
Well, yes. It could be very valuable. An absolute mint condition late 1930's 357 Magnum is high dollar.
Lets get really good pictures of your gun and you can get a better idea of value.
Condition, refinish, changes from original factory configuration, Factory grips all play a huge part of the value.
You unquestionably have a very nice old Smith 357 Magnum.
Last edited by Sgt 127; 03-04-2017 at 06:32 PM.
Reason: Typo
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-04-2017, 07:47 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 9,575
Likes: 3,695
Liked 8,923 Times in 3,544 Posts
|
|
Welcome to the forum.
Is there a number on the back of the right stock?
__________________
James Redfield
LM #497
|
03-04-2017, 08:37 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
It does not have stock grips they are wood Fitz brand
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-04-2017, 11:17 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwest Iowa
Posts: 10,867
Likes: 2,688
Liked 18,968 Times in 5,588 Posts
|
|
Welcome to the forum. Fine revolver.
__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065
|
03-04-2017, 11:28 PM
|
Absent Comrade US Veteran SWCA Founding Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, CA. USA
Posts: 10,536
Likes: 3,529
Liked 6,883 Times in 2,796 Posts
|
|
Your next step is to acquire a factory historical letter with copies of all the factory paper trail on the gun - who bought it, when where, and what the rework was all about, etc., from the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation. That can double it's value, as is, as that would be it's birth certification ! There's a link on this Forum for the application forms & input info. to get the background history, etc. Ed.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-05-2017, 01:32 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warrensburg, MO USA
Posts: 5,402
Likes: 2,839
Liked 3,288 Times in 1,685 Posts
|
|
You have a mighty fine magnum there. Even if refinished, which I am not sure of from the pictures, it is still quite valuable. They are very strong guns and you should not be afraid of shooting it on occasion.
Welcome to the forum and if you decide to do the research, please keep this thread updated. :-)
__________________
Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-05-2017, 05:42 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
found the grips
Today I found the matching number factory grips but sadly no grip screw, no worries i will find one
I am also sending in for the letter
Attached are some pics
Thanks everyone for your replies
|
The Following 38 Users Like Post:
|
629shooter, arjay, bracebeemer, bruce5781, cndrdk, codenamedave, Combat, Dan M, deyomatic, DGT, Dillyp, gkitch, Hunter Keith, JayCeeNC, JP@AK, jringo8769, JSW, kryten67, Lee's Landing Billy, montezumaz, moosedog, Muley Gil, Nedroe, OldK22, opoefc, ParadiseRoad, Point 357, quinn, red9, retnavyshooter, RoadVirus, RobertJ., samandglove1, shawn mccarver, shorty40, shouldazagged, Speedo2, Twiki357 |
03-05-2017, 06:17 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,780
Likes: 934
Liked 18,872 Times in 9,240 Posts
|
|
You might see if the aftermarket stocks have the correct stock screw. A nice set of original stocks would be about $500, but the fact they are 'the' stocks for the gun adds more than that to its value. This might be a good week to buy a lottery ticket .
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-05-2017, 06:51 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northeast Alabama
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 2,777
Liked 1,917 Times in 705 Posts
|
|
That is a great find and a great looking 357. Congratulations
|
03-06-2017, 12:10 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 11,064
Liked 12,074 Times in 1,920 Posts
|
|
Welcome to the forum... what an entrance!
__________________
Randy
Provenance nerd
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-06-2017, 12:48 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New England
Posts: 1,357
Likes: 10,048
Liked 1,001 Times in 491 Posts
|
|
If this was April 1st Id be adament we were being Trolled! Pre war 3.5 inch RM near mint with perfect stocks and he only has 5 posts! Wheeeee
|
03-06-2017, 01:13 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kennesaw,Ga
Posts: 2,579
Likes: 3,939
Liked 5,521 Times in 1,148 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnetzley
Today I found the matching number factory grips but sadly no grip screw, no worries i will find one
I am also sending in for the letter
Attached are some pics
Thanks everyone for your replies
|
We would love to know the story behind the gun, and how you happen to find the matching grips today! Great gun!
__________________
That's what she said!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-06-2017, 01:33 AM
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 19,336
Likes: 53,737
Liked 38,386 Times in 11,801 Posts
|
|
Welcome aboard, and congratulations on a beautiful revolver. Amazing find.
__________________
Oh well, what the hell.
|
03-06-2017, 08:55 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
OK a little history
My father passed away about a year ago and left me his weapons, slowly but surely I have been going thru them cleaning inspecting and shooting them. The Smith 357 looked just like a normal 357 to me so i didn't think much about it, I shot it, nice shooter nice and tight so I thought I would put some nice grips on it. The gun had some Fitz wood target grips on it that were a little rough. I tried to find a model number on the gun so I could determine what frame the gun has so I came to this forum and wow. After that I went on a search for the original grips, i happened to find in a cigar box full of stock grips. The gun most likely belonged to my grandfather as he worked part time at a gun store in the 50's and 60's, my dad and him were always bringing home surplus weapons and custom builds
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-06-2017, 08:27 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 805
Likes: 3,261
Liked 662 Times in 305 Posts
|
|
Any other unknown gems you have in the collection? You don't have an M1911 made by the Singer sewing machine company, do you?
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-06-2017, 09:00 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bakersville NC
Posts: 402
Likes: 279
Liked 703 Times in 162 Posts
|
|
Or a k32?
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-06-2017, 10:01 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: East of Jefferson
Posts: 634
Likes: 667
Liked 1,159 Times in 387 Posts
|
|
hekuva first post!
I'd treat that cigar box like a treasure chest if I were you, like murphydog mentioned, just old stocks can be worth a bundle.
__________________
TEAM DNF
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-06-2017, 10:36 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 3,513
Liked 6,728 Times in 2,620 Posts
|
|
Jackpot. . . .
Pre-War NRM with Baughman Ramp on King Base. It just almost doesn't get much better, and given its condition, I wonder if it was factory refinished at some point?
As Ed says, you have got to get the factory letter, AND the documentation from the SWHF.
Oh, and if your luck is running that good, best buy a lottery ticket also, even though it is almost you already had a winning ticket with this find!
Good show.
NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, DO NOT ALTER THIS REVOLVER IN ANY WAY AT THIS POINT. NO GEE-WHIZ FINISHES, NO CORNER GUNSMITH TRIGGER JOB, NO NOTHING!!!! IT CAN ONLY HARM THE VALUE AT THIS POINT. Someone on this forum will be able to help you acquire an appropriate grip screw for the factory correct Magna grips. Post a WTB in that section.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 01:32 AM
|
Absent Comrade US Veteran SWCA Founding Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, CA. USA
Posts: 10,536
Likes: 3,529
Liked 6,883 Times in 2,796 Posts
|
|
rnetzley, FYI, The grips screw for your RM. stocks is the same grip screw as used in the pre-war .38/44 Heavy Duties and Outdoorsman revolvers as they all used the same N frame stocks. Ed.
Last edited by opoefc; 03-07-2017 at 01:33 AM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 03:21 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
Deyomatic and Dilly
I do have a 1920's Comercial Luger and a Mark 1 Webly .455 both in real good shape no pitting at least 85% of finish intact
__________________
Respectfully Bob
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 04:10 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
|
|
Both could be worth substantial $$. It would be best if you provided some pictures and other information about those two. SN 619xx is definitely a non-registered magnum. I have numerous SNs very close to that on my list, all of which shipped in July and August 1940. I don't know exactly when the registration program was halted, but from those .357s I have listed, it seems to be somewhere around SN 600xx.
You shouldn't have much of a problem finding a grip screw. As previously stated, pre-war N-frame Magnas can be pricey.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 05:37 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 18,905
Liked 3,510 Times in 1,121 Posts
|
|
I have 4-inch Non-RM serial# 61959 which shipped in July, 1940 as part of a large order (26 guns) to Kansas City, MO, Police Dept.
Your gun may have been part of this shipment.
Kansas PD guns were mostly shipped with the Baughman front ramp, and many of them were sent back to the factory for repair over their life on the beat as yours appears to have been based on the return date stamped in the grip frame.
__________________
John
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 05:47 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Just West of Houston
Posts: 3,468
Likes: 787
Liked 4,674 Times in 2,062 Posts
|
|
This reminds me of the antique road show on TV where people found items in their attic or a garage sale that turned out to be worth vast amounts of money.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 07:08 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SW VA
Posts: 16,556
Likes: 4,647
Liked 1,645 Times in 1,283 Posts
|
|
Welcome to the forum.
__________________
Roger
|
03-07-2017, 08:01 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gman51
This reminds me of the antique road show on TV where people found items in their attic or a garage sale that turned out to be worth vast amounts of money.
|
That's just the ones that make it onto the program, which is a small percentage of those who show up with their treasures. I went to an ARS event once. Most people bring stuff to it that is not much more than worthless junk.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 08:24 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,666
Likes: 1,566
Liked 6,195 Times in 2,270 Posts
|
|
Man....the Dudes in your family had excellent taste in firearms.
|
03-08-2017, 01:46 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
Thank everyone for all the replies and suggestions I have sent off for the letter and will have a historical background check done once I receive the letter
and yes those dudes did love thier weapons as do I
__________________
Respectfully Bob
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-08-2017, 02:34 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,850
Likes: 11,782
Liked 13,762 Times in 3,346 Posts
|
|
Beautiful revolver and a family heirloom no less. A tribute to your father who obviously enjoyed the finer things in life.
|
03-08-2017, 06:11 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
JayCeeNC sounds like a good possibility my gun was part of that shipment in 1940 as part of a large order (26 guns) to Kansas City, MO, Police Dept. The serial on mine 61941, I am in the process of getting the letters, I should be able to confirm after that.
Thanks for the info
__________________
Respectfully Bob
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-08-2017, 06:35 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Death Valley, AZ
Posts: 2,804
Likes: 13,885
Liked 8,963 Times in 1,396 Posts
|
|
Welcome to the Smith & Wesson Forum from another Arizonan.
My first thought was it's probably a KCPD Non-Registered Magnum.
Great Family Heirloom.
__________________
Living a dream - S&WCA #2364
|
03-08-2017, 10:59 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Verde Valley AZ
Posts: 528
Likes: 2,984
Liked 156 Times in 88 Posts
|
|
Bob,
Thanks for the Cialis moment!
Fred in Lake Montezuma
__________________
Fred
S&WCA 3238
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-09-2017, 08:00 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
Got a new old stock grip screw today from USA Guns and Gear perfect fit and color, very happy
__________________
Respectfully Bob
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-11-2017, 05:27 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: East of Jefferson
Posts: 634
Likes: 667
Liked 1,159 Times in 387 Posts
|
|
If it's not too much to ask, there are probably more than a few of us wondering if you could post pics of the other interesting firearms you've inherited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by montezumaz
Bob,
Thanks for the Cialis moment!
Fred in Lake Montezuma
|
Thanks for making me spray iced tea on my keyboard!
__________________
TEAM DNF
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-11-2017, 09:29 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 17,471
Likes: 88,955
Liked 24,775 Times in 8,480 Posts
|
|
Welcome to the Forum.
Sorry you lost your dad, but he left you some real treasures.
Looking forward to seeing pictures of that Webley.
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
|
03-11-2017, 10:16 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,305
Likes: 14,958
Liked 2,549 Times in 1,145 Posts
|
|
Welcome!
What a great find and I agree with glenwolde that your family has excellent taste in firearms!
I am also looking forward to hearing more about this revolver and the others in your collection.
|
03-27-2017, 09:11 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 79 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
Update
Confirmed received my letter today it is a KC PD non registered magnum attached is the letter
I will be sending some more pics of the other weapons shortly
__________________
Respectfully Bob
Last edited by rnetzley; 03-27-2017 at 11:46 PM.
Reason: Changed Pics
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-27-2017, 10:24 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,007
Likes: 18,905
Liked 3,510 Times in 1,121 Posts
|
|
Nice.
Same shipment as the one I own.
__________________
John
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|