Gary,
Here's my summation of general 1917 documentation that you or the owner might find useful:
1917 PRODUCTION SUMMARY:
Military 1917s are in the range #1 thru # 169959 with 163,635 revolvers completed and delivered in 1918, and approximately 7,300 revolvers were delivered partially completed and were not counted in the 163,635 figure. As usual with S&W, revolvers were not completed in order of their serial numbers and all numbers may not have been used. All were shipped to Springfield Armory.
Both S&W and Colt were allowed to purchase M1917 revolvers left over when their rebuild contracts were terminated at the end of WWII. (Pate, see below for full text.)
Most early WWI 1917s are marked "GHS" in a circle, (Gilbert H. Stewart), Gov’t inspector, left side frame up near the hammer serial number range 1-42000. There’s also a GHD Guy H. Drewry inspector from 1930-1957 (with various increasing ranks in front of his name), who was in charge of the Hartford Ordnance District and under whose authority and name, ordnance contractors stationed at the S&W factory inspected guns both for Lend-lease and for ASP (Army Supply Program) contracts.
Middle range guns are marked with a flaming bomb, beginning c. #42000 to April 1918.
Late war time produced guns are marked in various locations with an eagle head over an "S" followed by a number like S1, S2, S3, S4, S6, S9, S24, S27, S34, etc., from April 1918 to war’s end. These marks are inspector marks used on Military guns which are also marked "United States Property” on the underside of the barrel.
The butt of the gun will have a two line serial number (when over 3 digits) and U.S. Army Model 1917 in four lines as well as a lanyard ring (which is the earliest version; polished and case colored, not sandblasted and blued). “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” is roll stamped under the front end of the barrel.
Earliest have smooth, concave round top stocks and circular hammer grooves up to about #15,000. Although, many have been observed sporadically up to the #20,000 range. As with all things S&W, there is seldom a specific serial number cut off. Deletion of the stocks w/concave top and the hammer grooves were of the earliest changes.
Most 1917 military issue have round top straps and a U notch rear sight. Later built frames with early #s have been observed with flat top strap and square notch rear sight; example #113934. It is not known when this change was initiated. However, cumulative wisdom is that the flat-top strap with Sq notch rear sight revision came to the N-frame in the 1926/1927 time frame.
War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos (nor did any hand ejectors following the war until ~ 1920).
ARSENAL REBIULD: If there’s an extra large stamped # up to 5 digits (sometimes with an R or S) in the yoke, yoke cut out, under the barrel, or all three places, it’s an arsenal # indicating an arsenal rebuilt gun. The R may be found on the frame left side as well. Examples:
Tryig to identify 1917 Revolver &
Please help identify my 1917 Hand Ejector .45
Serrated trigger order change March 18, 1929.
“WW I U.S. 1917 hammers and triggers are slightly different from later N frame parts.” Lee Jarrett.
And will work in triple locks.
Cylinder hold open detent:
In my experience military 1917s had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. The cyl hold open detent went away on all frames after WW II with the usual few exceptions that had frames/yokes made pre war. It's been reported that some 1917s do not have the detent as a war time expedient, but of the hundreds of 1917s I've seen all did or at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost. Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room.
Serial/Government numbering of 1917s, Smith vs. Colt:
Many do not know that S&W 1917s are #d differently from Colt 1917s.
The S&W serial # on the butt, as opposed to Colt, served a dual purpose; it was also S&W's government #. The serial number on the COLT US Army Model of 1917 is stamped on the frame, opposite the crane, and a different number on the butt of their 1917 is the government #.
S&W Assembly (factory work) #s: These tiny multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the ‘yoke cut’ on frame opposite the yoke, and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and post war period to ~1958.
6 Groove Rifling:
I would theorize that the 6 groove rifling came about with the advent of 45 ACP hardball ammo and the 1917 Army Model.
The 1917 and later S&W 45 ACP revolvers into the 1950s, have the same 6 groove barrel and the same twist direction as other S&Ws but it's a much more rapid twist than say the their 44s.
Colt used a 1 in 16" left-hand twist. S&W preferred a 1 in 14.569" right-hand twist, Smith & Wesson Handguns by Roy McHenry and Walter Roper, page 97. Also, David Chicoine in his book on gunsmithing the guns of the old west states that S&W top breaks initially had 5 lands but later, with the .45 Schofield, went to 6 lands.
My 25-2 and my 22-4 both have the 6 groove twist.
My Triple Lock 455 British Contract barrel from 1915 has 5 groove rifling.
My earliest 44 Triple Lock from 1910 has 5 groove rifling, my most recent 1990 44 does too, as well as all .44s in between.
COMMERCIAL MODELS
“The factory added the 1917 as a regular cataloged commercial model in Catalog D-2 which was issued in Jan, 1921.
Same basic gun as a 1917 Army. That's not to say there were none sold into the commercial market before that; there are 'no rules' that apply.
Features of Commercial models post WW I:
No “Army” grip mark, or “US Property” barrel mark. (Note: SCSW-3 states some coml models can be found with barrel mark.)
5-1/2" in cal 45 ACP, but the barrel reads "S.&W. D.A. 45".
Bright Blue.
Butt Swivel.
S&W logo left side, checkered non-medallion, convex top stocks during the 1920s. [Flat silver medallions thru the 1930s and war years.]”
The lowest Com’l model in the SWCA database = #167382 shipped Oct, 1922.” Lee Jarrett
Com'l 1917 models have a serial # parallel to the butt like all other Com’l models (except those I frames stamped on the front grip strap).
Rare 1917 Commercial Target less than 5 known Jim Fisher’s Genuine Coml Target #181982; one of five known. (see also “1917 factory targets” message)
A 1917 Coml #179698 shipped 9/20/27.
In Dec 1936, logo ordered moved to the sideplate on the right and made larger.
In SCSW reportedly some few of these 1930 rd top frames (less than 1000) were also reportedly assembled into Transitional Commercial models in serial range S209792-S210782.
Iskra’s Sn 2099xx (no "S" prefix).
SMITH & WESSON DA 45 MODEL 1917 COMMERCIAL See original box in post #37.
In 1933 at about serial # 185,000 a hammer block was added to this model. There's a statement in SCSW pg 163 that the new hammer block was added at serial #185,000 w/o an S because of course it’s prior to 1946.
“An S on the cylinder has nothing to do with the hammer block and was put on the first many thousands built in 1917-18.” Lee Jarrett
Inspected, but unused serial numbered 1917 military frames preceding and following #169959, (the estimated last military unit made), were assembled thru #209791 by 1946.
Some 1917 parts left over from the government contract with very varied shipping dates were assembled into many commercial model 1917s, 2nd Model 44 Hand Ejectors, 38/44s, and military 1917s to fill contracts for the Brazilian government in 1937 and 1946. Therefore the s/n is of little help to pin down the shipping dates, but features do help.
There are numerous examples that have the flaming bomb or eagle government inspector stamps in one or more various locations but not on the outside of the frame which were finished off; only in the yoke, and on 45 barrels and/or 45 cylinders.
Example: 45 ACP all matching serial number is #55639 (assembly # 18408 match in all 3 locations as well), it's a round top/U sight notch, has Eagle head proofs inspectors stamps on barrel & cylinder; S24 on cylinder, and an S34 on the barrel. Likely from the 1946 contract because of round top strap and U notch.
If it has the S&W trademark on the frame it is a commercial gun, at least after ~ 1920.
War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos.
A few more were produced c. 1946 - 1950 (991 is the usual quantity quoted), most in the 1917 serial range # S209972 to # S210782 (811 #s), but not all, and some without the S prefix, issued as commercial models post WW II, found with and w/o lanyard swivels, and are considered "Model 1917 Army Post War Transitional Models", until updated with the short action ".45 HE Model of 1950, Military" in 1951 beginning at #S85000 in the other existing N frame serial # range common to all pre war and post war models except the 1917 Army, but most with added S prefix in 1946.
According to Neal and Jinks, the Commercial models of the early period were stamped 'US Army Model 1917' and stamped 'US Property' under the barrel, but this is questioned and mostly disproved. If they exist or are faked, this may be how the "Civilian Model 1917" terminology came about. More to learn on this issue. (Laron’s, #178XXX has no US markings albeit a later vintage.)
BRAZILIAN CONTRACT 1917s
In 1937 S&W made some 25,000 1917s for Brazil, most in serial range 181983-207043 with exceptions as usual that have serial #s far out of this range, using the late or post WW I produced flat top frame with sq notch rear sight, and these are stamped “MADE IN U.S.A.” on right frame side with the S&W trademark on left side of frame. They also have a Brazilian Crest on the side plate dated 1937. These first contract Brazilian 1917s had commercial checkered grips with flat chrome plated medallions. Many Brazilians can be found with the import mark of the importer that brought them back to the USA. One common importer stamp is "IA CO SAC CA" (International Arms Company, Sacramento, California) but stamps of other big importers of surplus arms can be observed as well.
The 2nd Brazilian contract run in 1946 of about 11,800, most using surplus WW I produced frames in the 166,000 – 175,150 range with exceptions as usual that have serial #s far out of this range, most with older style round top strap and small U notch rear sight. Some were the newer flat top frames generally in the 207,196 – 209,878 range, with a few round tops also reported in that range. These '46 contract guns had WW I surplus 1917 smooth grips. These are also stamped “MADE IN U.S.A.”. Serial #s read with barrel to the left like all post war hand ejectors.
1917 Target ??
Linear Mode
