Long time lurker. I have just purchased what I think might be a early Victory model. It is a 5 screw .38 special ser# 999468. It has a black parkerized finish smooth grips and a grip lanyard. Finish is 95% and barely a track line. I can't send pictures at the moment. I hope you guys can help me. I paid 200 for it and was up front with the owner on what I believed it to be and how much it could potentially be worth. 500 and above.

It's not quite a Victory. About 532 serial numbers short. All Victories have a V prefix SN, starting with V1. Yours probably shipped in June 1942, and many collectors would call it a pre-Victory M&P. You stole it for $200. If in the condition you describe, $500 would be a fair valuation. Any other markings on it? Some Navy guns existed in that SN range, but those would have the Navy property stamping on the topstrap. Most likely a DSC gun, less likely a Maritime Commission gun if there is no topstrap stamping.

That serial would be a very late pre-Victory from late spring 1942, shortly before the V-prefix started at V 1 when the numbers hit 999999.

If it is as nice as you say, and actually all-original and not refinished, $200 would indeed be a steal.

Pictures would be essential to assess originality. "Black parkerized" can cover a lot of interpretations . In the meantime, have you checked for all-matching serial numbers, including the right stock panel backside?

Have not removed the stocks yet. I read that not all Victorys had a V prefix if they were early models. I plan on posting pictures asap but that could be a few days because I'm not real good with that procedure.

Ser# matches on back of right grip panel and no signs of rust or corrosion . This great!

"I read that not all Victorys had a V prefix if they were early models."
Wherever you read that, it's incorrect. However, your revolver is in all respects identical to the Victory (V-series) revolvers which probably were made a few days later.

As DWalt says, if you want to be precise, the Victory moniker is tied to the V-prefix, so no V, no Victory. Many collectors call guns with the features typical for the Victory, but made before the serials reached 999999, "pre-Victory".

On the other hand, many folks are less picky and/or knowledgable, and on auction sites like Gunbroker you frequently find the Victory label used for any M&P from the era with lanyard loop and/or dull finish, V or not.

s/n 975939 shipped in 04/42
s/n 975093 shipped in 04/42
s/n 972535 shipped in 04/42
s/n 927625 shipped in 04/42

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Thanks guys, this is why I came to this forum. The depth of knowledge is truly amazing. I know what I have is a pre Victoy model with a ser# very close to the "V" prefix. I will post pictures as soon as possible. Thanks again!

Keep in mind that all of the so-called "pre-Victory" revolvers did not have the flat oxide or phosphate finish. The earliest examples were finished with Carbonia blue, which was the standard commercial finish before the war.

Added: I believe the cutoff for the Carbonia blue finish was about December, 1941. After that the finish was dull, first using an oxide process and later a phosphate process.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

And to confuse things even further, at least based on my current casual observation of the market, the most common presently available type of pre-Victory BSR left the factory in Carbonia blue, but now sports a dull parkerized finish that looks pretty genuine, because it was refinished in Australia after the war (Pic. 1). Somehow, quite a few people have decided to put their upper 700- and 800-thousand serialed specimen up for sale recently .

The second photo shows pre-Victory 910xxx with the pre-phosphate oxide finish Jack mentioned, Jan. 1942.

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The wartime finish changes timeline is not easily determined. The Hellstrom notes supply some generalities, but with little precision:

1. The Carbonia finish was replaced by the "(wire)brush blue" oxide process (Black Magic) in December 1941 at a SN given as being around 860,000. It's indicated in the notes that the Carbonia process was still being used for some guns after this time.

2. The "brush blue" was changed to a sand blast blue (probably really a ceramic bead blast) on 4/10/42 at approximate SN 900,000. This still used the Black Magic oxide blue process, only the surface prep method was changed.

3. This is the vague part, but it seems that "Parkerizing" (using the sand blast surface prep) began on 5/22/42 at approximate SN 980,000. But it's not easy to translate the notes on this point. We know that "Parkerizing" (a phosphate coating) was replaced by some other phosphating process fairly quickly (only a few more than 2000 guns were actually Parkerized) as a result of royalty payment issues with the Parker Rustproofing Co.

My '42 DSC , ser# starting 985 , was had for $399 , and I felt that I did very well.

Pictures ...?