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03-24-2017, 11:29 AM
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Identifying a .38 Special
No Model Listed only the yoke and frame number.
Serial : 6567, this serial is only 4 digits long there is NO letter preceding the numbers. I know the star simply means the gun was serviced by S&W at some point. This number is also found on the backside of the cylinder.
Caliber: .38 Special CTG (as it reads on the barrel)
Barrel: 6 1/2"
Sights: Fixed
Strain Screw: Yes
Butt Swivel: No
Screw Set: Appears to be 4, I'm still looking into the trigger guard screw.
I've uploaded several pictures. This gun has tons of numbers all over it. Some I figured out, others like "4.13" and "88" on the inside of the gripstrap have me scratching my head. I've got more pictures but I'm not sure they'd be helpful in trying to figure out the year and model of this gun. From what I've read I think it's a Model 1 M&P? Maybe between 1903 and 1905. Partly because there are a slew of Pat numbers stamped on the barrel none of them later than 01. I could be way off base here since all my info came off the internet. Thanks in advance for input or details about this pistol.
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03-24-2017, 06:35 PM
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got a serial under the ejector? only S&W w/o barrel mounted lockup is the 1899! This was either refinished or.....?
Beautiful example.
Al
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03-24-2017, 06:41 PM
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It is a Model of 1899, AKA the K-frame First Model. There were about 20K of these made, 1899-1902. It went back to the factory for work in April 1913 according to the stamp (4.13) on the grip frame. It appears to have been refinished at some time and the target grips are nowhere near original, probably from the 1950s-60s.
It's considered to be a historic piece - the first of the S&W K-frame revolvers, with millions very similar to it to follow, including a million made during WWII alone. Of course those made recently have significant mechanical improvements over yours. It is the most important revolver S&W ever made and no other style of S&W revolver even comes close to the numbers of K-frames that S&W produced. Unfortunate that it has not remained in its original condition.
Last edited by DWalt; 03-24-2017 at 07:19 PM.
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03-24-2017, 06:42 PM
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SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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Yes, this is definitely a refinished Hand Ejector Model 1899, probably from 1900/01 or so. The star does mean factory repair work of some sort, although that doesn't necessarily have to include the reblue job.
PS. Actually , upon a second look, I'm certain that the refinish is not factory since hammer, trigger, and ejector rod were also blued, which the factory would not have done.
Last edited by Absalom; 03-24-2017 at 06:46 PM.
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03-24-2017, 06:44 PM
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...it may have been refinished more than once...lots off edges buffed off...an interesting old revolver none the less...
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03-24-2017, 06:48 PM
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welcome to S&W. glad you are here.
nice looking S&W revolver.....
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03-24-2017, 11:22 PM
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Thank you everyone for the responses. It's been a fun learning experience!
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03-24-2017, 11:27 PM
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Looking for that serial
Quote:
Originally Posted by apotter11
got a serial under the ejector? only S&W w/o barrel mounted lockup is the 1899! This was either refinished or.....?
Beautiful example.
Al
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I'll have closer look to see if there is a number under the ejector rod.
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03-24-2017, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apotter11
got a serial under the ejector? only S&W w/o barrel mounted lockup is the 1899! This was either refinished or.....?
Beautiful example.
Al
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I'm sure it was refinished, but I don't know when. I don't know anything about the gun other than what I could learn from members here and the internet. The previous owner inherited the gun and it was given to me. The previous owner is not a gun enthusiast so he couldn't give me any info other than his uncle owned it. I suspected the gun had been re blued, personally I didn't think S&W would have done such a bad job, but if the gun was re-blued in 1913 it's hard to say how well the blue would have held up since I don't know the history of the gun or how it was cared for in the past. But as Absalom pointed out there were several indicators that show S&W did not do the re-bluing.
Last edited by Ed Padget; 03-24-2017 at 11:52 PM.
Reason: additional information from members included
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03-24-2017, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
It is a Model of 1899, AKA the K-frame First Model. There were about 20K of these made, 1899-1902. It went back to the factory for work in April 1913 according to the stamp (4.13) on the grip frame. It appears to have been refinished at some time and the target grips are nowhere near original, probably from the 1950s-60s.
It's considered to be a historic piece - the first of the S&W K-frame revolvers, with millions very similar to it to follow, including a million made during WWII alone. Of course those made recently have significant mechanical improvements over yours. It is the most important revolver S&W ever made and no other style of S&W revolver even comes close to the numbers of K-frames that S&W produced. Unfortunate that it has not remained in its original condition.
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DWalt,
Thank you so much for the detailed response. How do I go about putting a value to this gun for insurance purposes?
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03-24-2017, 11:44 PM
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Welcome to the forum. You have a neat one there I have two of them myself. As you have been told the grips that are on it belong on a 1950's or 1960's S&W K frame and have some pretty good value on their own. If I had them I would put them on my Model 15-2 and be a very happy man.
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03-24-2017, 11:44 PM
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4.13 & 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Padget
DWalt,
Thank you so much for the detailed response. How do I go about putting a value to this gun for insurance purposes?
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I did learn the same thing online in one of the many pages I've read over the past week that the 4.13 was a date stamp to show when the gun was serviced by S&W. I'm glad you stated that in your response so it confirmed what I thought I understood.
In respect to the number "88" that is located opposite end of the "4.13" do you know anything about that number?
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03-24-2017, 11:49 PM
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More Pictures of the 1899 K frame.
Could this have also been the first model for the M&P? Some of the information I read implied it may be. Or at least that was my understanding. I've added a few more pics some may be do-overs from earlier.
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03-24-2017, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Yes, this is definitely a refinished Hand Ejector Model 1899, probably from 1900/01 or so. The star does mean factory repair work of some sort, although that doesn't necessarily have to include the reblue job.
PS. Actually , upon a second look, I'm certain that the refinish is not factory since hammer, trigger, and ejector rod were also blued, which the factory would not have done.
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Good eye! I didn't know that about S&W what a factory refinish would have entailed! I just assumed it probably wasn't S&W because the re-blue job wasn't a good job to begin with. The discoloration and haze that is splotched across the frame made me think it was done by someone not accustomed to that kind of work. Never having dealt with a gun this old though I wasn't sure what 100 year old blue may look like given best or worst case scenarios.
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03-25-2017, 12:54 AM
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SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Padget
Could this have also been the first model for the M&P? Some of the information I read implied it may be. Or at least that was my understanding....
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Yes, you understood that correctly.
The Model of 1899 was the first Hand Ejector with the larger frame size, known as a K-frame, which became the Model of 1902 with the round butt, then acquired a square butt as the Model of 1905, and got the M&P (Military & Police) label, finally becoming the Model 10 in 1957/58.
The only substantial difference between your Model 1899 and the next Model 1902, also called the Military Model, is the absence of the front lug for the ejector rod, as someone above already mentioned. That makes the model easily recognizable; all later models had that lug. See the snip of your photo compared to a Model 1902.
Last edited by Absalom; 03-25-2017 at 12:57 AM.
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03-26-2017, 01:02 AM
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The lug is a very prominent feature and one I was using when I we were trying to figure out the age of the gun. I saw a slew of them with that lug.
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03-26-2017, 01:08 AM
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You are fortunate that the extractor rod knob is still there. It's virtually impossible to find any replacements. Don't lose it. Monetarily, it's condition reduces its value substantially. I'd guess it might find a buyer at around $500 given the somewhat desirable target stocks on it. In mint condition, it would be several multiples of that.
Last edited by DWalt; 03-26-2017 at 01:12 AM.
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03-27-2017, 07:04 PM
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Thank you for the response.
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