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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 03-24-2017, 03:31 PM
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I have a 38 S&W Terrier shipped to U.S.P.O. October 1951.
I was advised that Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation had scanned documents through early 1950's so I submitted the factory letter and received a copy of the original invoice showing 1,000 guns in the shipment.
The one I have is not stamped as invoice shows.



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Old 03-24-2017, 04:14 PM
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Well, that opens the door to contemplating the interesting options:

Was S&W sloppy and did not stamp all the guns they shipped?

Was the stamping surgically removed before surplussing the gun from government service and the spot refinished professionally?

Did someone retire the gun from official service illegally and remove the stamping to avoid drawing attention to the fact that he had a government gun?

I assume the stamping would have been on the backstrap. Have you seen a specimen with stamping so you know what it would have looked like? A microscopic inspection of that area might be in order .
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Old 03-24-2017, 04:24 PM
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Hi:
Right out of High School I worked for the Post Office as a "Tem Employee". The carriers of registered mail drew a handgun from supply before leaving the building. There were several different types of revolvers from S&W / Colt Model 1917s, H&R .38s, S&Ws, and Colt 2" .38s. The carriers that left early were issued the small revolvers and the last ones to leave got the Model 1917s.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:04 PM
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Surely to goodness you don't expect ANYTHING involving a government agency to make a whole lot of sense, do you? That would almost have to be against the laws of nature, wouldn't it?

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Old 03-24-2017, 05:15 PM
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I once read that the USPO had .38 S&W ammunition that had some special headstamp to identify it, but have never been able to verify that. Has anyone ever seen any?
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:39 PM
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I emailed invoice to Roy Jinks and he advised that there was a mix of commercial models in the shipment so not all were stamped.
No sign of refinishing on my gun.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:54 PM
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Maybe the Post Office lost the marking?????
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:52 PM
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I emailed invoice to Roy Jinks and he advised that there was a mix of commercial models in the shipment so not all were stamped.
...
Awwww.... once again, exciting speculation shot down by drab old reality .
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:34 PM
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I found the invoice interesting in and of itself. Who would of thought the Federal Post Office would of been paying excise tax? I would of thought the Post Office would of been exempt from paying taxes.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:15 PM
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I found the invoice interesting in and of itself. Who would of thought the Federal Post Office would of been paying excise tax? I would of thought the Post Office would of been exempt from paying taxes.
It's an excise tax, which could have been federal or state (I'm sure tax laws have changed since then), but in any case, it's a tax the producer, in this case S&W, pays and is expected to pass on to the customer, so I suppose it doesn't matter who it is.

What I find much cuter is that shipping on a 1000 guns (calculate the weight alone, not to talk of packaging and handling) apparently cost a measly $6.60.
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:22 PM
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It's an excise tax, which could have been federal or state (I'm sure tax laws have changed since then), but in any case, it's a tax the producer, in this case S&W, pays and is expected to pass on to the customer, so I suppose it doesn't matter who it is.

What I find much cuter is that shipping on a 1000 guns (calculate the weight alone, not to talk of packaging and handling) apparently cost a measly $6.60.
Even in today's dollars it would be roughly $65.94.
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:34 PM
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Up into the mid 1980's, ramp clerks at the bigger airports were issued revolvers when they received certain shipments by air. At one point I asked for training on the guns and was told it was ramp clerks only and with my junior seniority I'd never get a ramp job.
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:55 PM
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Even in today's dollars it would be roughly $65.94.
Yep. That'd cover the shipping charges for maybe two guns you buy on Gunbroker these days. Good deal. I always thought the government just got ripped off, on $1000 toilet seats and such .
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Old 03-25-2017, 01:44 PM
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Here is what is missing:
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:42 PM
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I found the invoice interesting in and of itself. Who would of thought the Federal Post Office would of been paying excise tax? I would of thought the Post Office would of been exempt from paying taxes.
I did not think they would have to. I wonder if that is a mistake that was rectified later.
In the 80s and 90s, a friend was in the commercial reloading and ammo manufacturing business. There was an 11% FEDERAL excise tax on new guns and ammo that the manufacturer had to collect.
Police departments and other government agencies were exempt.
I have seen exemption forms printed by S&W for police and other gov agencies to fill out and avoid the tax. That is one reason we see such low prices on some Reg Mag invoices.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:38 PM
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KWILL can you advise serial number of the gun shown ?
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:45 PM
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KWILL can you advise serial number of the gun shown ?
It isn't my gun but the SN is 59817. Is yours 63663?
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:49 PM
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KWILL:Wondered what number was used, serial number or PO specified one.
The grips on the gun look to be pre war style, mine are post war.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:56 PM
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Used where? Not many of these turn up but I've documented lots of the Colt Banker's Specials that the Railway Mail Service used prior to WWII. S&W tried multiple times to undercut Colt's price but only succeeded a couple of times. If the Smith's are like the Colts there is no correlation of the issue number to the serial number.

Could you confirm your serial number please?
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:10 PM
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KWILL: 63663
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:04 PM
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Although there were over 25,000 small Colt revolvers (mostly, but not exclusively, Banker's Specials) and 1,500 or so Terriers sold to the Post Office, they are rarely seen. Why? Almost all of them were reported as "lost." In the 1920s and 1930s the Colt's were issued a neat little valise with compartments for the holster, belt, ammo and work documents.
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:18 PM
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Message deleted because I misremembered the date, but those who quoted me below will preserve the mistake. 56073 actually shipped a year earlier, in October 1950.

I will letter it anyway.
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:21 PM
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Hmmm. In my safe is Terrier 56073, also shipped in October 1951 and also not carrying a P.O. stamp. If a thousand of them went out that month to a single buyer, and perhaps only a few dozen to other recipients, you've got to ask yourself: what are the odds?

I never ordered a letter on my Terrier, so I don't know where it was shipped. I guess that is now one of the things I will do with the rest of today.
I second the motion.

BTW, what kind of grips (stocks) are on your gun?
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:25 PM
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Hmmm. In my safe is Terrier 56073, also shipped in October 1951 and also not carrying a P.O. stamp..
Earlier you said October 1950. So which is correct?
"Nice score! The prewar and early postwar Terriers are some of my favorite S&W products. My only postwar is 56073, which shipped in October 1950. It has the wrong stocks on it, but is otherwise identical to yours."
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:50 PM
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I second the motion.

BTW, what kind of grips (stocks) are on your gun?
Not that it matters now because of the corrected shipping date, but they are round butt magnas like the ones on the OP's Terrier. Mine are not numbered to the gun and instead carry the lower serial number 10246, which is not a possible Terrier number for the era. A 1950 Terrier should have had round butt service stocks. I suspect the magnas now on mine were repurposed after removal from (probably) an early Chiefs Special.
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:58 PM
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Earlier you said October 1950. So which is correct?
"Nice score! The prewar and early postwar Terriers are some of my favorite S&W products. My only postwar is 56073, which shipped in October 1950. It has the wrong stocks on it, but is otherwise identical to yours."
Earlier post in this thread corrected.
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:33 PM
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I really like these little guns and the invoice the OP has is great to see. Here's mine with stocks numbered to the gun shipped 9/50
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