|
|
03-25-2017, 12:58 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
New lunch pail gun BSR
I pulled the trigger on the 4" BSR. Got it for $290. Brought her home and cleaned her up. What are the stocks that are supposed to be on it look like? How do I need to go about replacing the broken lanyard? Looks like it spent its life in a glove box or it may have spent some time in a lunch pail with all battering it shows. Now to find some 38 S&W ammo and send Mr Jinks a request for a letter.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 02:07 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,247
Likes: 11,901
Liked 20,591 Times in 8,581 Posts
|
|
Pretty nice catch for a decent price.
The stocks are the correct type. Remove the right side and check for a stamped serial that will match the gun #. If they match, they're the original stocks.
Remove the pin at the bottom of the grip frame to replace the lanyard swivel.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 02:07 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
Are the stocks supposed to have medallion checkered or non medallion checkered? Cylinder has not been converted for .38 special. Can I use an easy out for the remainder of the broken butt swivel and then install new, or is this a gunsmith job?
|
03-25-2017, 02:11 PM
|
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,996 Times in 8,452 Posts
|
|
Yep, that's definitely a crown-over-something acceptance mark, like I've seen on Canadian S&W's. The absence of other marks like South African or post-war British makes that plausible, even though it does not have the Canadian broad-arrow-in-a-C, but there are Canadian .455's without that, too.
The correct stocks would be pre-war small service stocks with medallion. See attached picture.
For an original lanyard swivel, check Gunbroker or ebay. I don't do the technical stuff, I'm sure someone can tell you about the installation, AFAIK it is pretty straightforward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
....
The stocks are the correct type. Remove the right side and check for a stamped serial that will match the gun #. If they match, they're the original stocks.
...l.
|
Jim:
The OP presented this gun in an earlier thread. The serial is 686841, much too early for the smooth walnut stocks.
Last edited by Absalom; 03-25-2017 at 02:17 PM.
|
03-25-2017, 02:13 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
Hondo44 is the pin removed using punch strait out?
|
03-25-2017, 02:29 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
I think I was looking on the wrong side for proof marks, found these on right side of frame.looks like I have a little rust to battle too.
Last edited by M_conrad_0311; 03-25-2017 at 02:31 PM.
|
03-25-2017, 02:30 PM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,996
Likes: 8,976
Liked 48,745 Times in 9,252 Posts
|
|
Why do you call it a lunch pail gun?
Except for the grips, it looks like a righteous and very early BSR.
SO early that it has a true pre-war commercial finish.
People often say the early military guns before the various phosphate finishes were the pre-war commercial blue, but they were NOT.
The Factory very early on dropped at least the final high polish grit of the pre-war commercial finish. The finish on those guns look more like the finish on the WW I Mod 1917s.
Till wartime production, the finish on an M&P was the same as that on a Reg Mag.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 02:32 PM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,996
Likes: 8,976
Liked 48,745 Times in 9,252 Posts
|
|
The pin for the swivel is easy to punch straight out.
The stub might come out by tapping the butt with hard wood or a large screwdriver handle.
The swivel you need will be a mostly gray (case-hardened) color, not blue.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 02:37 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: East of Jefferson
Posts: 634
Likes: 667
Liked 1,159 Times in 387 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_conrad_0311
Hondo44 is the pin removed using punch strait out?
|
IANAH, but with the stocks off the pin should just fall out. If it's stuck in place with crud or what-have-you, a light push with a probe should do it.
Gun Parts Corp, formerly Numrich, has the parts, it's where I got mine.
__________________
TEAM DNF
|
03-25-2017, 02:38 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,247
Likes: 11,901
Liked 20,591 Times in 8,581 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Jim:
The OP presented this gun in an earlier thread. The serial is 686841, much too early for the smooth walnut stocks.
|
Thank you. The nicer finish should have tipped me off.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
03-25-2017, 02:41 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
Lee:
Only referred to it as a lunch pail gun to the amount of dings and scrapes that the gun sports, not that it wasn't a nice piece. I surely wouldn't have took her in if I didn't think she was good piece. Besides, it allowed me to use an old hand made lunch pail for a backdrop.
Last edited by M_conrad_0311; 03-25-2017 at 02:43 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 02:45 PM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,996
Likes: 8,976
Liked 48,745 Times in 9,252 Posts
|
|
Dings and scrapes are normal for Brit/Commonwealth guns.
We're thinking they assigned people to the job of beating up guns.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 02:50 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,247
Likes: 11,901
Liked 20,591 Times in 8,581 Posts
|
|
Conrad,
It looks like the lanyard retaining pin has already been removed.
I don't recall ever seeing a swivel broken off like that. But no doubt it has wedged the remaining piece in the hole.
Smacking the butt may dislodge it with inertia as Lee posted. All little heat on the grip frame with a blow driver won't hurt the finish and along with the smacking may help break it loose.
But as you posted it may have to be drilled which will likely spin it in the hole which will loosen it and you maybe able to pull it out with the drill bit.
Worse case scenario, thread the hole and gently pull it out with the treading tap. Or if still stuck, remove the tap and thread a screw into the threaded hole and pull on the screw with pliers. Or clamp the screw in a vise and pull on the gun.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Last edited by Hondo44; 03-25-2017 at 02:56 PM.
|
03-25-2017, 03:00 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,247
Likes: 11,901
Liked 20,591 Times in 8,581 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_conrad_0311
Lee:
Only referred to it as a lunch pail gun to the amount of dings and scrapes that the gun sports, not that it wasn't a nice piece. I surely wouldn't have took her in if I didn't think she was good piece. Besides, it allowed me to use an old hand made lunch pail for a backdrop.
|
These guns were treated like tools that one would just throw into the tool box when not using it like any other; a socket wrench or hammer, etc.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 03:07 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
Turns out, there was no pin, nor remnant of butt swivel, only years of crud. I think it might have turned into a diamond, had I left it in there another year or two. Thank you for the help. Hopefully I can obtain a new keeper pin when I order the butt swivel.
|
03-25-2017, 03:09 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: IA
Posts: 1,726
Likes: 991
Liked 1,626 Times in 799 Posts
|
|
FYI a lunch pail gun would typically refer to a gun that was put together with parts smuggled out of the factory one at a time in a lunch pail.
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 03:25 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,595
Likes: 239
Liked 29,105 Times in 14,073 Posts
|
|
SN looks like 686841, dating its probable shipment to be around March-May 1940. And at that time, the pre-war commercial Carbonia bright blued finish was still used. As were the silver medallion checkered wood grips. A letter will not likely tell you much information of value beyond the exact shipping date. It will probably show it was shipped to the British Purchasing Commission, New York City, and how many guns were in the same shipment. Due to existing U. S. neutrality laws at that time, the British had to pay for U. S.-manufactured weapons and war materiel in cash and were responsible for transporting it to England or wherever ("Cash and Carry"). Late in 1941, the Lend-Lease Act of 1941 took effect, which essentially allowed the U. S. to lease (really meaning "give") American war materiel to various allied nations. And did we ever.
"Hopefully I can obtain a new keeper pin when I order the butt swivel. "
It should be simple enough to find a piece of wire or a small nail, paper clip, etc., of the correct diameter which will work fine. You probably won't need to buy a pin if one is not included with the swivel. There were some minor differences in swivels depending upon when manufactured, but that's of no real concern.
Last edited by DWalt; 03-25-2017 at 04:01 PM.
|
03-25-2017, 03:29 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northern Neck of VA
Posts: 694
Likes: 238
Liked 353 Times in 177 Posts
|
|
Here's one fairly close...
This is 685771, which coincidently, came from a shop in TN as well, about 1100 off yours; the grips should look like this:
Last edited by RWJ; 03-25-2017 at 03:51 PM.
Reason: add info
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-25-2017, 03:56 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
Gun Parts Corp, formerly Numrich, has the parts, it's where I got mine.[/QUOTE]
They had both swivel and pin for a mere $18. Thank you for the lead.
Sorry about misrepresenting lunch pail terminology, appreciate the insight.
Sounds like there is really no reason to letter this pistol, being it is pretty clear what it is and how it should be presented. Probably would not get that $75 back anyways.
|
03-25-2017, 04:05 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,595
Likes: 239
Liked 29,105 Times in 14,073 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_conrad_0311
Sounds like there is really no reason to letter this pistol, being it is pretty clear what it is and how it should be presented. Probably would not get that $75 back anyways.
|
See Posting #4 of 38 Revolver gift - help to identify
for typical earlier Pre-Victory BSR letter contents.
|
03-25-2017, 04:45 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,247
Likes: 11,901
Liked 20,591 Times in 8,581 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_conrad_0311
Turns out, there was no pin, nor remnant of butt swivel, only years of crud. I think it might have turned into a diamond, had I left it in there another year or two. Thank you for the help. Hopefully I can obtain a new keeper pin when I order the butt swivel.
|
Bravo, it sure looked like a broken off piece of steel in the photo.
You can get the keeper pin and some lanyards come with it. If the pin costs more than a dollar extra, just take a numbered drill of the right diameter and cut off a piece of the shank to the right length.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
03-26-2017, 10:22 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern Middle Tennessee
Posts: 2,915
Likes: 3,427
Liked 4,120 Times in 1,462 Posts
|
|
Neat gun most BSR Smiths were of the 5 inch barrel variety. Most like the one I own look much worse than yours. What part of the state do you call home I live north of Nashville in Portland.
|
03-26-2017, 10:42 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by merl67
. What part of the state do you call home I live north of Nashville in Portland.
|
I reside in East TN, outside of Knoxville, in Maryville. Did you attend the Murfreesboro show this weekend. I thought about driving over, but then... I thought again. Is it a good show?
__________________
Matthew Conrad
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-26-2017, 10:59 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern Middle Tennessee
Posts: 2,915
Likes: 3,427
Liked 4,120 Times in 1,462 Posts
|
|
No I didn't I have to work Saturdays and Sunday is church/family time. I have been to past shows there and usually it is a pretty good show.
|
03-27-2017, 02:47 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TN - Tennessee
Posts: 487
Likes: 1,972
Liked 2,123 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
The lunch pail was made by a man that worked for Alcoa aluminum factory for a man named William Coffin. That is what is printed on the front of it. I picked it up at a weekly auction for $5. I have heard rumor that many employees had them at one time. Thanks for the compliment.
__________________
Matthew Conrad
|
03-27-2017, 09:40 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posts: 7,470
Likes: 2,830
Liked 6,261 Times in 2,170 Posts
|
|
Lunch pails were nearly mandatory for a lot of occupations. Up in Kentucky, all the miners had them. Sometimes dozens of workers, all with the same pail.
Lunch box gun seems to have many meanings. The same idea, stolen or smuggled out the door. Everyone did it, apparently. One I bought was actually finished, sort of. Clearly made up from parts, the barrel isn't even finish ground. Just the rough forging but apparently correctly fitted for 12:00 and cylinder clearance. I bought it because its a prewar K32, sort of.
And another of mine looks like it came out of shipping as a correctly finished piece. A pretty early Centennial. Its got a serial of #157 but letters as "open on company books". I hate it when that happens. Could be an employee got it, or a salesman needed a sample and got it around the paperwork.
I agree with the OPs conclusion about his letter. Just not worth the effort or the money as there is little to learn. If it turns out "open", you know even less. So save your money and buy a box of semi antique ammo to store/show with the gun.
__________________
Dick Burg
|
03-27-2017, 10:31 PM
|
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,996 Times in 8,452 Posts
|
|
That's a matter of perspective.
You have a fairly rare BSR variant in the original Carbonia blue finish which you bought way below value. The incorrect stocks are unfortunate, but don't change that.
If you sold that gun to me the letter request would be in the mail before the gun even got here .
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads
|
Thread |
Thread Starter |
Forum |
Replies |
Last Post |
A "Lunch Pail Rifle"?
|
4506517 |
Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics |
16 |
06-28-2013 01:16 PM |
Anyone For Lunch?
|
labworm |
The Lounge |
43 |
04-19-2013 11:37 PM |
What's for lunch?
|
tacreload |
The Lounge |
1 |
03-02-2013 07:24 PM |
Lunch
|
Alpo |
The Lounge |
8 |
10-09-2009 08:52 PM |
|