I have only ever seen one in person and it was probably a 50% piece. I attempted to buy it, but was unsuccessful. That was over 10 years ago. I intermittently watch the gun auction sites, but am unaware of what a "fair price" is to pay for one. I assume it is always best to purchase one that is from a known collector, but how often do those come up? As always, I know it depends on inclusions and condition and provenance. There was one listed on GB at a pawn shop that went unsold. I assume that is because they are asking too much for it. Is it alright to ask those that are in the know, think is a fair price on that specific pistol? Any advice on what to watch out for? What is the difference in price for a pre-war unregistered vs RM? All input is greatly appreciated. I know luck can be a big part of it, but all in all, I just do not want to get taken to the wood shed.

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Matthew Conrad

I can't speak for others but what I do is look at actual sold prices for similar guns on Gunbroker doesn't matter if it is a S&W or a Mauser (my other weakness) works for me most of the time.

The fact you've only seen one in person should speak volumes to you. And it's not that they're so rare/scarce (pick one), but that they are a historically significant S&W---with a following approaching cult status. This puts you in a great position as a seller----not so great as a buyer. That's a fact of life to live with---best described by the old saying: "If you can't run with the big dogs, you best stay on the porch."

One question you've asked which can be answered objectively is that of difference in price/value between registered/non registered----figure 60 cents on the dollar for a non registered----for the same gun. Call the difference the price of admission to the cult. Another question which can be answered objectively---is it okay to ask those in the know? Absolutely (!!)----but ask more than one.

Advice on what to watch out for: You've already committed one cardinal sin in my book----you tried to buy a 50% gun. DON'T DO THAT!! If you try to buy a 50% example of one of only two ever made, fine----go for it! Otherwise, buy the absolute best quality you can. If that means you have to do nothing but scrimp and save, then scrimp and save until you have enough to buy something worthwhile. Something worthwhile is up at the top of the line---something that will appreciate---or at least hold its own. Anything else will depreciate-----not good.

A "fair price"? You've already answered that one. The price at auction is, by definition, fair market value for the item at that time and place. The only flaw in that premise is when two deep pockets each gotta have it---and go at it. Then use your head---and your feet. Take a hike!

(There was a time, many years ago, when I was GOING TO BUY a Triple Lock target. I had done what you're doing right now, and was prepared to pay $5,500 (the most ever for one gun at that time)----and absolutely KNEW I could do it. I told the nice lady on the phone I wouldn't be bidding---and to just tell me when it was time to buy the gun. Right!! About five seconds after the bell, she said, "He's at $7,000---do you want to go $7,500?" Some very rapid 3rd grade arithmetic told me $7,500 plus the buyer's premium was ---------too much. "No ma'am, thank you---I'm out."----and took a hike. The other guy got it-----for $8,050---all in. I got mine about six months later----for a little less than I was willing to pay---and it was a vastly superior gun.)

Bottom Line: Nobody can take you to the woodshed! You're going to walk in there all by yourself----knowing better every step of the way. DON'T DO THAT!!

Ralph Tremaine

Not an expert in any way but I would suggest buying from known vendors if you can especially if you can't handle what your buying in person. If your buying online or at an auction don't buy unless the pictures are good. FYI if your looking at RM's there are a couple on Rockisland auctions coming up.

My advise is if you are serious about purchasing one, read as much info about them as you can before perusing one. HAVE PATIENCE - you are NOT going to find too many and when you do you need to go over it thoroughly to make sure it was not refinished, had any major repair or alteration work, replacement grips, barrel changes etc. To find one with the original box is even more rare, but those are gonna be pricey. Be careful - the RM's (because of their demand and collectibility) are "doctored up" many times and sellers often leave out pertinent information - on purpose or "by accident". I've had my eyes out for a good one for many years now and have still not found what I want - in the condition I a looking for. If and when I ever do - I will probably balk at the price too!

Not to hi-jack the thread .... but it may be helpful to the OP.... and me.

What is this "buyers premium" ...... and what other "hidden" costs if any are there when buying at auction???




I scored a "minty" (LOL) RM at a local gun shop about 15 years ago .......dirt cheap.....listed as a; "S&W .357mag. 61/2"... had Pachmyer grips on it...............so my advice is look at every used N frame you see. At first glance I would have put it as a 2-3 year old 27 that the owner never shot.....

The one the OP referred to was a factory reblued piece with a mis-matched cylinder. Seller said he had the original cylinder but it needed a different crane for it to be able to be refitted. Only a few pictures, and not good ones at that. No bids were placed. That's a case where I would have to see the gun in person.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

A formal auction house will charge a fee based on a percentage of the winning bid, often 5-20%. Figure that in, add shipping (and if you are unlucky enough to live in the same state as the auctioneer, sales tax) and you may be looking at a substantial charge tacked onto the bid itself. If you buy an item at an exceptionally low price or cost is no object to you the extra fees may not matter.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Some things have just gone way out of my price range. As others have said, you almost have to hope to find one at a shop where they don't know what they have. Buying one from a reputable seller who knows the market takes this:

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You're shy a few manners.

Rock Island Auction charges 17.5% premium if you use a credit card. Add shipping and handling to that and you're probably looking at 20-25% of the hammer price once it's all said and done. That a pretty penny on an RM at $6 or 7 thousand.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Matthew, you can find RM's over a wide range of prices and conditions. Basically, you have to ask yourself "what is the minimum condition I would be satisfied with" and "how much am I willing to spend to buy a gun in that or better condition." I presume you aren't the $10K is fine by me kind of guy because you would already have one. So, maybe something more realistic is $3K-$5K. It may take a while, but you should be able to find an RM in that price range. It might be factory refinished, missing the stocks or have some blemishes, but maybe you can live with that. If misrepresentation troubles you, then stick to the known ethical sellers on Gunbroker.com like David Carroll (woodlawn boys) and Lee Jarrett (noconeetrader). Eventually, you'll find what you are looking for like I did.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Ralph: thank you for the excellent summation. you hit a lot of great points.

Troystat: thank you for the heads up with Rock Island. I have never been to a large auction for firearms. I will spend some time learning how this works on their site.
Chief38: you hit my biggest concern. It is pretty easy to misrepresent or omit certain details and claim ignorance. I agree that patience will eventually land me a good candidate.

Bam Bam: I already check every N frame I see, just in case. Fortune has smiled on you.

Those are high premiums. good to know ahead of time.

Guy: I was hoping 3-5K would get it done. thank you for alerting me to some ethical sellers.

Thank you all for the input and advice.

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Matthew Conrad

Early this month, in Louisville, KY there were no less than 3 or 4 that I saw. You can go and if you know dealers from TN, you can even get one to help you with the transfer.

As you read these posts, you'll realize that a lot of personal opinions are stated as fact. Be wary. For someone contemplating a purchase of one, I'd suggest you'd be well served looking at as many as you can. That's why we go to gun shows. David Carroll, an Alabama dealer, usually has one or two floating around. His prices are often high, but he's a master marketer and offers up some of the best collector grade guns you'll see.

A good strategy at the shows is to make friends. At the recent show we were roaming around and other collectors were exchanging information. Its how I came to see the RMs. Its also a good indication they were overpriced since the other scoundrels (I include myself) hadn't already bought them.

One place I'd suggest you start is finding a copy of Roy's 1989 (might as well have been 1889) article. It appeared in the SWCA journal and then again in a Gun Digest. It pretty well outlined all that was known at that time. But don't believe everything you read or hear. We can't even agree as to how many were made and there are some pretty slick people on each side of that argument. The points of view are interesting. Roy, the author, doesn't include police guns as RMs because they weren't eligible for the registration deal. But they have an RM# in the crane cut. Others feel the only true "RM's" were the ones that were registered by S&W, meaning the original owners returned the postcard.

A while back I wandered past Ray Brazile's table at the gun show. He had a blue picture box and wanted $300 for it. I hesitated, and that's how I didn't buy it. Someone smarter and quicker on the draw did. 10 or so years ago I'd never even seen a short box. Its the same style but built for a 4" or similar barrel. Now I've seen a bunch of them, probably a half dozen.

My bona fides: At one time I owned 34 1/2 of them. Now I don't own even a single one. I paid as little as $625 for a nickel 4" gun, and I don't even remember the top prices. I got out of the game because I helped destroy the market for them. I wish the OP good luck. But you will run with a fast crowd. And you might be happy with a 50% or lower condition gun for a tenth as much money. A huge number have been refinished. Nearly all the KC Police guns were. Some by a fool with a grinder and a brother in law with a bottle of cold blue.

If you get tired of looking, consider other targets. 44s, or K22 2nds.

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Dick Burg

Thank you Dick. The good thing is, I don't think I will ever get tired of looking. I already consider all the pre war pistols. The fit and finish are fantastic. As nice as would be to have a 99% gun, I also enjoy the honesty of a user. If all functions correctly and hasn't been hobbled together, then I am at least interested.

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Matthew Conrad

Mathew, let me offer a slightly different perspective. There are members here that seek only the finest examples of firearms and have the money to pursue them. I take my hat off to those members and love seeing their posts.

Many others, simply can't or won't spend $10k on a revolver or any other gun for that matter. I have been fortunate enough to have acquired 3 Registered Magnums over the last 10 years (one last year). All have been under the $3k number mentioned above. They are not "safe queens" but I did not buy them as investments.

Let me give you an example: About two years ago I saw what I thought to be an old pre 27 at a gun show. On closer inspection, it turned out to be a Registered Magnum. It had been refinished (probably several times). As I visited with the seller, he produced pages of documentation on the gun. One of the documents was a copy of the original order sheet for the gun. It was ordered by a deputy sheriff in Texas in December of 1935. I later learned that he retired as Police Chief of Port Arthur, TX. If you are familiar with the way the RMs were ordered, the buyer filled out a form specifying the configuration he wanted. The buyer specified he wanted the revolver sighted-in at 200 yards. I laughed out loud when I read that. At some point, reading the history of the gun, I decided I had to have it. We settled on a price way below $3k.

I still have that revolver and shoot it often. The point is; buy what you want. Unless you are buying as an investment, even a less than perfect RM can bring you a lot of joy.

A REG MAG is a "Holy Grail" gun for most people. Enjoy the journey, it can take years to find your holy grail, so be patient and learn along the way.

I own a REG MAG that I lucked into about 10 years ago at a small local gun show. It was factory reworked (star by SN) and has had the King treatment done to it (sites and cockeyed hammer). It has a cylinder ring bluing wear, but that means I don't feel guilty taking it out and shooting it.

Take your time and purchase a 27/pre-27 (or Highway Patrolman) or two while you are looking. They will hold you over until you find your RM.

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My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

So is the concensus that, for a first time RM buyer without unlimited funds, a less than stellar piece, perhaps factory refinished, non matching stocks, etc, should not be a deal breaker at reasonable, (under $3k) prices?

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

There are lots of experts here that know much more than I do about Registered Magnums, but I read every post I see on the them. I have lucked into two, both from the same place, a few years apart. One was a used one and one was like new in the box.

My thought is that there were quite a few guns that were left in their box or very slightly used over the years. Then there were a bunch that were bought for work, either law enforcement or perhaps hunting. So there are a lot of hard used guns still around and some very, very nice ones. Not so many in between. So, its harder to find a middle ground, medium used nice gun, not so expensive as the excellent condition ones, not a worn out, many times re blued gun. So the "reasonable" price guns may be harder to find.

Anyway, just my observation.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I got my one and only RM this past December from David Carroll of Woodlawn Boys fame. It had been sent back to the Factory in 1975 and had R-N on the butt. It too had the King treatment with Gold Bead front and WO rear. When it arrived, it appeared as if it had not been touched by human hands since 1975, unless with white gloves. It did have a beautiful set of magna grip/stocks on it that did not number to the gun. So there you have it, refinished, nonmatching stocks, with different sights than it was born with. I paid all the money! It fit every criteria I had, 4 inch barrel, nickel, King sights, in perfect Factory refinish. I am certain I will never have another. This gun and my Triplelock, that will soon be refinished to suit me, will close my S&W circle. For the first time in a LONG time I am looking for nothing. It took me a lifetime to be able to have the ones I wanted [now well over 100]. If you are patient, I believe, as others have said, you will find what you want. The down side is, these things have a finite number. I don't think, in my lifetime, that we will see them getting cheaper. So, build your warchest and lurk in the shadows, get to know Doc44, RK Mesa, David Carroll. They will help you and point you in the right direction. FIRST, figure out what you want and FOCUS.

RMs.RMs.RMS, I have had them and sold them. And I dont mean redone ones, nice from the factory. Just get a nice 27 or 28 and go shoot it.
That is why ole Wesson built them. Are they nice, heck yes, but not 12K nice. Just my ramble at 69.Best

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

In the last 5 years I found 2 RMs. One I bought from a retired Secret Service officer, He had paid $500 for it a LGS (They thought it was a M-27). He offered it to me about 3 months later for $1500. I bought It and It was lettered as a 6 1/2 inch pistol in 1939 and sent to S&W in 1972 and refinished and barrel was replaced with a 3 1/2 barrel and new diamond magnas. I bought it because I thought I'd would never afford a RM. A year later I walked in a pawnshop and bought a 3 1/2 inch RM with the wrong grips and about 60% finish for $350. I sold the beautiful refinished pistol for $3000 and kept the shooter. It is my favorite Pistol and won't be for sale until after I croak. Buy what you can afford and sell the shooter when you find the one that satisfies you. Sell the shooter because it will have appreciated as time goes by.
SWCA 892

Matthew, I suggest calling Rock Island directly and just having them talk you through their system. They are VERY good about that approach and want to make their system work for you.

Weren't any on the auction sites for a while...now there are 5. Point of entry is over $5k and goes up from there

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760