Does having the original serial matched walnut grips make a 1919 38 Special M&P worth more? I found in pencil the serial number of the pistol on the back of the 1919 gold wash S&W logo grips.

All other aspects of two similar guns being equal, a revolver with matching numbered stocks will be worth more than the one without. However, one with well-fitting stocks of the proper type and vintage, but non-matching, generally will not cause too much heartburn among most collectors.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

What he said! If you get 'em, it's a bonus. If not, no big deal.

Ralph Tremaine

It certainly helps the value. The amount depends on the condition of the grips and gun. On the average specimen the increase wouldn't be significant but on a pristine example the lack of orginal grips could be substantial.

Stocks from that era that have legible (penciled) serial numbers aren't all that common. The numbers are often obliterated by cleaning solvents. I witnessed that first hand once when I soaked an oil soaked set in mineral spirits. *Poof*, the numbers vanished.

On the other hand, it's not hard for anyone to pencil a number on stocks then swear they're original. Most of us who know how they should fit can usually tell by looking at them whether or not they are factory originals - with, or without numbers.

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

Mark is probably right about this. However, it is surprising how often correctly numbered stocks actually do show up on guns from before 1920.

Quite a few years ago (approximately 20 years IIRC), my father gave to me my grandfather's old .38 Hand Ejector Target Model with the 6 1/2" barrel. According to Roy's letter, it left the factory in April, 1908. The stocks are period correct and the first time I took them off and looked on the inside of the right panel, I could see faded pencil marks. So I took out a flashlight and a magnifying glass and examined it more carefully. Sure enough, the number matched the frame. I was pleased, to say the least!

My grandfather passed away two months before I left for my first tour in Vietnam. I am blessed to have a lot of his old tools (he owned a machine shop before WWII, but shut it down and worked for Lockheed through the war, remaining with them until he retired in 1963). But my most prized possession from him is this old Model 1905 Target.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Att a he'd photis

Attached Images

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Another look

Yes, the ORIGINAL grips do increase value - where as non originals (even if period correct) would be a decreasing factor for a true collector. To just a run of the mill Plinker it might not matter too much. To me it does matter (as far as the price is concerned) but not necessarily a deal-breaker.

There are a lot of qualifiers that affect the answer to your question. If I were presented with two identical models, one with black hard rubber stocks and the other with nice checkered wood stocks, I would prefer to buy the wood stocked gun and even pay a slight premium. I am typically skeptical about penciled numbers on guns, since anyone can do it. I once bought a Model Model 1899 with wood stocks that had penciled numbers matching the serial number. I bought the gun, took off the stocks to clean the gun and under a strong light, saw a faint set of penciled numbers under those that I now know were placed there by a previous owner. I also have guns with nice wood stocks that have no numbers visible - are they original or not?? Never know. Lastly, I have one Model 1905 that letters with black hard rubber stocks and have wood penciled stocks. What do I believe?

Bottom line, wood penciled stocks are not something I would pay much more for, and any premium paid would be because of the fact that I like wood.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

As with all things that CAN be faked, it becomes a matter of relative probability. The possibility increases with the general value of the gun. As was said before, matching stocks are a much bigger deal on high end collectibles than on used shooters with lots of character.

The term "non-original" is also relative. I've come across a nice 1910s round butt K-frame with equally nice 1920s non-medallion stocks pencil-numbered to the gun. Was that some modern attempt to fake an increased collector value, or just as likely a conscientious gunsmith in the 1920s installing nicer replacement stocks for a customer (remember, you didn't order those on the internet back then), and penciling the number on them as appeared proper to him?

So one cannot make a blanket statement in answer to your question. The number or not on the stocks is a factor, including in price negotiations, but how much depends on the whole package.

And then we come face to face with the real world. That goes like this: Stocks, schmocks-----it all depends on the gun.

If one had the opportunity to buy a reasonably nice, plain vanilla, more or less collectible gun----generally thought of as a dime a dozen, and the stocks were not original; then one may have a bargaining point. Still in the real world, this bargaining point doesn't amount to a hill of beans.(!!)

Now let's talk about a grail gun-----make up your own, so I don't have to make a list of possibles. It doesn't have its original grips. What happens now?

I am reminded of the pricing policy of Jim Supica's Old Town Station. It went like this----EXACTLY like this: Early on in my experience, a copy of the Old Town Station Dispatch arrived in my mail box. Therein were a bunch of spiffy guns---those most of us lust after to one degree or another---and there was one in particular---with the wrong grips on it----really wrong----not even the correct period. I was on the phone in something less than two seconds FLAT. Not too long after that, I was asking for their "best price". Some of us with perhaps a wee bit less couth might even have made an offer.

The response from the nice lady: "We believe this is a fair price. We are going to hold to this price for 90 days. If, at the end of this time, the gun has not sold, we will revisit the question of price."

That's what she said. Here's what I heard: This is a very attractive gun. It's probably going to be snatched up by the next person who calls----so you have to ask yourself this question: Are you feeling lucky? Well are you----PUNK?!!

My reply: Ship it!

Ralph Tremaine

Nice story, and in that context you're absolutely right.

However, it's a far cry from the "real world", where this happens maybe once in a blue moon.

The OP's gun is more at the opposite end, a fairly common early M&P of the type that changes hands on Gunbroker and such on a regular basis. And there is no question at all that being able to say "all-matching, including stocks" should get him faster offers and likely a higher end price.

Indeed. A few years back I traded away a K-38 in decent shape with the right stocks but not numbered. A few months later I saw it advertised in the local classifieds with CORRECT NUMBERED STOCKS!

Amazing, no?

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Just Say No - To Social Media

My Dad gave me his 6" M&P that shipped June 1919. The stocks pencil numbered to the gun. They were originals. It now resides in my son's gun safe. Bob

OH, forgot, Welcome to the FORUM!