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Old 04-15-2017, 10:56 PM
policerevolvercollector policerevolvercollector is offline
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What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....?  
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Default What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....?

In the '60s ( I think),a company nickled and added fake stags to a thousands of BSRs. Which company was this?

I was in a pawn shop yesterday that had 4 of these guns. Two were 5" and two were 2". I have seen a lot of them cut to 4" over the years too.

They are hard to miss they have those hideous faux stags and shine like chrome on a trailer hitch.....!

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Charles
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:12 PM
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I have seen many of the Victory Models that went to England redone by Cogswell and Harrison who rechambered the 38 S&W guns into 38 Special and made others into 22 caliber with sleeving. Front sights were ramped and the guns were stamped with their name on the frames.
I don't remember nickeled ones though.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:00 AM
policerevolvercollector policerevolvercollector is offline
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I've seen the Cogswell & Harrison guns also.

The ones I'm referring to are still in .38/200 (aka .38 S&W). The lanyard ring holes were fillied in & the crude refinish was done as well as altering the bbl. length. The faux stags are all plastic and appear identical.

Best,
Charles
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:51 AM
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I'd like to know whether that was one company that did all of these, too.

The Cogswell & Harrison conversions are a completely different animal, only shortened so that the underbarrel lug remained, and always proofed in London for the .38 Special after the conversion.

The ones Charles is referring to were almost certainly done here in the US. Where British proofmarks are visible, they indicate Birmingham proofing for the original .38 caliber. Sometimes the grips are marked Franzite, but more often not.

It's interesting that Charles says all those at his pawnshop are still in .38 S&W. That I have never encountered before on a gun that had gotten the barrel-cut, nickel-plated, fake-stag treatment. Cylinder reaming usually came first.
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:14 AM
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ParkerHale perhaps (?).
I've seen a few of the OP described Victorys w/ a Parker Hale marked rib & front ramp soldered onto the bbl.
Could be another company just used the PH marked sight in their 'upgrade-conversion' too. I don't recall any other outside contractor markings on them.
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:41 AM
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There wasn't just one US company which "refurbished" the British Victories. An unknown number of US surplus arms dealers imported them in the 1950s-60s, then had them modified by whoever they could find to do the work the cheapest. The details on just how the business of butchering the old British Victories was done and by whom are murky. There was a posting here several years ago by someone who claimed to have worked at a machine shop that was converting the British Victories for an importer, but he did not provide much detail. I requested that he would be doing us a service if he could write up more information about his experience, but he never did. At least not that I saw.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:23 AM
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Hundreds of these were converted for "Dave's House of Guns" in Dallas Texas.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosedog View Post
I have seen many of the Victory Models that went to England redone by Cogswell and Harrison who rechambered the 38 S&W guns into 38 Special and made others into 22 caliber with sleeving. Front sights were ramped and the guns were stamped with their name on the frames.
I don't remember nickeled ones though.
I just won one of those.

image uploadcertificity.com

It now has a 3.5" barrel. Good shooter which makes me very happy.

upload piccertificity.com
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:10 AM
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Here you go, straight from the Victory Model archives.

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Old 04-16-2017, 12:27 PM
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From most that I have seen the Cogswell & Harrison conversions seemed t obe one of the better ones.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:46 PM
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From most that I have seen the Cogswell & Harrison conversions seemed t obe one of the better ones.
Indeed. Just like Parker-Hale. They generally were re-blued, got a set of very nice proprietary wooden stocks, and most had the barrel shortened to 3.5 inches as seen in the catalog posted by Charlie with a new ramp front sight. And as I mentioned, most were converted, and if so, before proofing, so they were tested for .38 Special. And they put their name on the guns.

On the surplus ones that were imported unmodified by the barrel-load, supposedly sometimes so cheap they were priced by scrap weight rather than per gun, it is likely that as DWalt says, whoever bought a large enough batch and could afford to order the operation had the conversion done.

And to us they look alike, but if you think about how to beautify a beat-up surplus revolver at a time when revolvers were a dime a dozen, cutting the awkward long barrel, a more popular caliber, cheap nickeling, some "fancy" plastic stocks (remember, back then plastics were exciting and good!) all just make sense to make the things more attractive to customers. It would not be too surprising if that's what everybody did, and it is not the mark of one company.
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:23 PM
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I've thought that a good topic for a Master's Thesis project would be the history of the surplus British Victories during the Post-WWII era including their use by the Austrian and German police and the story of the US imports.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by policerevolvercollector View Post
In the '60s ( I think),a company nickled and added fake stags to a thousands of BSRs. Which company was this?
Bubba's Bumper Shop & Bar-B-Q?????

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Old 04-17-2017, 10:39 AM
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I remember seeing a pile of them at KMart.
They were re-chambered and crudely marked 38 Special.
These didn't appear to have any other changes.
They were cheap but I passed.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:33 PM
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They aren't the guns meant here, but the USAF had a number of .38 Special Victory Models nickeled and given fake stag stocks for use by the SAC Elite Guard Air Police.


These were worn crossdraw on fancy gun belts with a wide chrome buckle. Those guys also got the blue beret long before the rest of us AF cops did.


Many more Victories served in original form until enough Combat Masterpieces were in service.


I presume that these USAF modified guns had better workmanship than the pawn shop specials in this thread.
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:02 PM
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As mentioned above, "Dave's House of Guns" in Texas was a major supplier of these modified Victory Models in the 70s & 80s. I bought many of them as cheap inventory for my gun store. Ed.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:23 PM
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I assume most of us remember Ye Olde Hunter, and N.F.Strebe gun works, both within five miles of the White House. Ye Olde Hunter may not have been a producer but Norman Strebe had a full production gunsmithing business where he converted thousands of guns from surplus military to "something else".
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:26 AM
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Norman Strebe and Dave Goldstein were great friends and business associates.
Probably most of the guns altered for "Dave's" were done by Strebe's shop.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:34 PM
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My first snub nose was one of those cut down victory models converted to .38 Special, nickeled (rather poorly) and cut to about 2". $20 . It split almost every case upon firing. Yet, when I traded it in for something better, a .38-44 Outdoorsman 4", I got my money back. I wonder why I do not still have the .38-44?

Best,

Jack
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:23 PM
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Is this one of them?

It would have had to have been done before the early to mid-60s. It belonged to my dad and it shoots well for a snubby, .38 Special. It has a "V" serial #. Lots of sentimental value for me.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:28 PM
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Is this one of them?

It would have had to have been done before the early to mid-60s. It belonged to my dad and it shoots well for a snubby, .38 Special. It has a "V" serial #. Lots of sentimental value for me.
Yes, a classic specimen. Pre-early 1960s is right; most with legible date codes on the view mark are late '50s (that's when they were proofed for sale in Britain).

The view mark is found in front of the trigger guard (see photo); on yours, I can't make out anything, it may have fallen victim to the nickeling.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:32 PM
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Southern Gun Distributors-Miami, Florida.
1. bore out chamber to accept .38spl.
2. some had the barrels chopped off to two inches
3. remove lanyard ring and fill in butt hole
4. nickel plate entire weapon (over existing original finish)
5. apply cheap plastic stag grips
Retail at $29.95 wholesale to FFL $20.95
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:54 PM
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Yes, a classic specimen. Pre-early 1960s is right; most with legible date codes on the view mark are late '50s (that's when they were proofed for sale in Britain).

The view mark is found in front of the trigger guard (see photo); on yours, I can't make out anything, it may have fallen victim to the nickeling.

Thanks, Absalom. So this one was probably sent to Britain? Any other probable historical info? I like learning about such things.

Is this what is called a "pre-model-10"?

My late husband told me that these older revolvers didn't have the safety feature to prevent it from firing if accidentally dropped the wrong way, and to be careful not to drop it when it is loaded. Also, to not use +P ammo in it. We never shot it a whole lot, but we did shoot it some and it shoots just fine. I treasure it because it was my daddy's.

I can't look to see whether it has a view mark or not right now because the gun is "put up". When I get a chance, I'll take a better look. I took this photo several years ago, but I can't see any mark in it either, zooming in on my computer.

Again, many thanks for the info. (I love S&W revolvers.)
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:05 PM
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Thanks, Absalom. So this one was probably sent to Britain? Any other probable historical info? I like learning about such things.

Is this what is called a "pre-model-10"?

My late husband told me that these older revolvers didn't have the safety feature to prevent it from firing if accidentally dropped the wrong way, and to be careful not to drop it when it is loaded. Also, to not use +P ammo in it.....
If there is an emergency and +P is all you've got, go ahead, it will not blow up, but otherwise indeed avoid any hot loads.

S&W revolvers do have a safety feature, but it failed in 1944 and killed a sailor, leading to the development of an improved one which yours doesn't have. In normal use, any risk is remote.

Yes, it most likely went to Britain, although other allied countries like Canada are possibilities too. Any surviving markings might or might not provide clues. If you post the serial number from the butt, someone here will give you a decent guess when it shipped from the factory. And it is too early to be a pre-Model 10; those didn't start until 1948 (although this gun does indeed belong in the eventual Model 10's family tree).
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:25 PM
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Didn't Klein's Sporting Goods sell these on mail order back in the '60s?
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:23 PM
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Didn't Klein's Sporting Goods sell these on mail order back in the '60s?
They did, but all the Klein's advertisements I've looked at offered them specifically as war surplus, including the shortened versions, with the original finish, original-style smooth stocks, and the lanyard still in place.

PS: Same with the .38 Spl. BSR which Lee Harvey Oswald ordered from Seaport Traders. Converted and shortened, and minus the swivel, but otherwise original. No nickel, no fake stags. So not all purveyors went for that look.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:45 PM
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All.
Might as well see one. This is NOT mine. It is listed at the LGS.
Bill@Yuma
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:57 PM
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If there is an emergency and +P is all you've got, go ahead, it will not blow up, but otherwise indeed avoid any hot loads.

S&W revolvers do have a safety feature, but it failed in 1944 and killed a sailor, leading to the development of an improved one which yours doesn't have. In normal use, any risk is remote.

Yes, it most likely went to Britain, although other allied countries like Canada are possibilities too. Any surviving markings might or might not provide clues. If you post the serial number from the butt, someone here will give you a decent guess when it shipped from the factory. And it is too early to be a pre-Model 10; those didn't start until 1948 (although this gun does indeed belong in the eventual Model 10's family tree).

Thanks so much for the additional info. I have newer ones, so this one hasn't been loaded in several years.

I still haven't had a chance to take a closer look at the gun, but I had recorded the serial #. It is V458xxx, if anyone knows the approximate date or other info.

Were all of these manufactured specifically to be sent to allied troops in other countries? Thanks.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:48 AM
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What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....?  
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In 50+ years of handling guns I have never dropped one so the fear of accidental discharge is nil.

My best advice, don't drop your gun.
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:22 AM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
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Welcome to the Forum.

"Were all of these manufactured specifically to be sent to allied troops in other countries? Thanks."

Yes, they were. Great Britain and its commonwealth countries did not have enough side arms and contracted with S&W at the beginning of WW II to supply these revolvers. After the end of the war, they were declared surplus and sold.
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:14 AM
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What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....? What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....?  
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" It is V458xxx, if anyone knows the approximate date or other info."
On my list is V4576xx which shipped in 12/43
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ec fan View Post
.......
I still haven't had a chance to take a closer look at the gun, but I had recorded the serial #. It is V458xxx, if anyone knows the approximate date or other info.

Were all of these manufactured specifically to be sent to allied troops in other countries? Thanks.
The attached pictures show what yours looked like when it left the factory and went to war. This one is about half a year later, V604xxx.
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What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....?-img_2364-jpg   What was the name of the company that "refurbished" Victory Models .....?-img_2372-jpg  
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