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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:22 PM
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Default Refinished 1917

Saw an interesting one today. It is an old 5-screw 1917 that has been given a hard-chrome finish. There are a bunch of roll marks on the barrel rib and the latest patent date listed looked like September 14, 1909 - or possibly 1908.

The left side looks pretty good (as seen in the attached photos). The markings are a tiny bit washed out from buffing, but not that bad, still pretty sharp.

The right side is a different story. Looks like when it was still blue someone left it sitting on something wet for an extended period. It got pretty badly pitted. Looks like whoever did the refinishing realized that the pits were too deep to buff out, so they didn't try very hard. Looks like they gave it just a cursory buff - enough to remove the blue, clean it up a bit, and make the sideplate seam a bit more prominent - but the pits are still there and relatively deep.

The hard chrome was applied right over the pits. So it isn't very pretty to look at. BUT mechanically it seems to be in really decent shape. Checks out OK for solid lock-up, no significant endshake, no push off, etc. The bore looks like it might be a tiny bit rough, but it was hard to tell if it was really minor pitting or just dirty.

The asking price was $265 + tax. I was sorely tempted but wanted to sleep on it. Since I'm a BIG fan of shooters (instead of collectables) I'm thinking I probably ought to go back and rescue this one. What do you guys think?
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File Type: jpg L-side-good.jpg (91.3 KB, 487 views)
File Type: jpg R-side-bad.jpg (114.8 KB, 441 views)
File Type: jpg Cylinder-Pits.jpg (66.5 KB, 352 views)
File Type: jpg R-side-Pits.jpg (115.4 KB, 319 views)

Last edited by BC38; 04-21-2017 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:32 PM
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Talking 1917 45acp

An N frame in almost any condition is worth the asking price, it would be in my safe right now. I also believe it is a commercial 1917 making it scarce if not a bit rare. Does it have a lone serial number on the butt? The "Made In USA" is the give away. If it has an N under the grips that would also peek my interest. If it is mechanically sound "go for it".
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:36 PM
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I would buy it for a "truck gun" and shooter. For me I would strip the nickle, bead blast it and then parkerize it.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:16 PM
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I was thinking it isn't nickle. I *think* it has been hard-chromed. Unless you guys can tell something by looking that I can't. It is really silvery-blue, and nickle usually has a warmer yellower tone - doesn't it?

Last edited by BC38; 04-21-2017 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:40 PM
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It does look like nickel because of the shine. Most chrome is brushed or bead blasted. Regardless, the gun would look great, in an unlit room. A cheap refinish to prevent rust would be the most that I would do to it, if it's mechanically sound. I'm a big fan of 45acp revolvers, but that one would make me think twice before buying it. With pitting like that on the outside, I would have to see the innards. Good luck.
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by sodacan View Post
It does look like nickel because of the shine. Most chrome is brushed or bead blasted. Regardless, the gun would look great, in an unlit room. A cheap refinish to prevent rust would be the most that I would do to it, if it's mechanically sound. I'm a big fan of 45acp revolvers, but that one would make me think twice before buying it. With pitting like that on the outside, I would have to see the innards. Good luck.
Interesting perspective.
I believe it has already had a "cheap refinish to prevent rust", so I wouldn't need to do that. There are currently no signs of rust - though rust is definitely what caused the existing pitting and surface imperfections that weren't removed before it was plated - regardless of whether the current plating is chrome or nickle.

I was basing my assumption of it being chromed on 3 things:
1) pictures like these of guns that people have said were hard-chromed
http://smith-wessonforum.com/139230637-post49.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/139429562-post1.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/139540947-post6.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/139534329-post1.html
2) my personal observations of the color difference between shiny chrome vs. nickle, and
3) a seller who I regard as being fairly knowledgeable making statements about it probably being chromed.

Of course none of those are infallible, definitive, or authoritative

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Old 04-22-2017, 01:03 AM
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[...] Most chrome is brushed or bead blasted. [...]
Back when most small towns had an auto body shop with chrome plating tanks a lot of inexpensive guns were refinished with bright bumper chrome. At the time U.S. 1917 .45s were dirt cheap surplus.
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:16 AM
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Back when most small towns had an auto body shop with chrome plating tanks a lot of inexpensive guns were refinished with bright bumper chrome. At the time U.S. 1917 .45s were dirt cheap surplus.
Kind of what I (and the seller) were thinking too. This one looks like it was rode hard and put away wet before it got its plating job - like maybe it was military surplus or a bring-back.

I was wondering if this one might have possibly seen some action in WWI or WWII - but delta-419 suggested above that it might be a commercial model. Personally, I would have no idea how to tell a commercial from a military. Though I'd love to learn if anyone wants to school me!

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Old 04-22-2017, 02:38 AM
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[...] I was wondering if this one might have possibly seen some action in WWI or WWII - but delta-419 suggested above that it might be a commercial model. [...]
Even I can see that it is a pre-WW II revolver so, given its chambering, whether it was privately owned or not there is a good chance that it was taken to dangerous places during WW II.

Since you like "shooters" at $265 I'd buy it. If you put it off some one else will snap it up. However, it will be hard to aim with sun light shinning off those tiny chromed sights. I own a 1917 that had a J frame adustable sight and a Micro front installed before I bought it in 1975. You could consider doing the same thing to this 1917.
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Old 04-22-2017, 03:10 AM
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I was wondering if this one might have possibly seen some action in WWI or WWII - but delta-419 suggested above that it might be a commercial model. Personally, I would have no idea how to tell a commercial from a military. Though I'd love to learn if anyone wants to school me!
Go back and get it, you can't go wrong at that price.

It's clearly not nickel or hard chrome; hard chrome looks like stainless. This one, as you say has the blue tint rather than the yellow of nickel, and it looks like a Buick bumper.

As delta-419 posted:

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I also believe it is a commercial 1917 making it scarce if not a bit rare. Does it have a lone serial number on the butt? The "Made In USA" is the give away. If it has an N under the grips that would also peek [peak] my interest.
If it isn't stamped US ARMY Model 1917 on the butt and US PROPERTY under the barrel, it's a commercial model and never went to war. A commercial model will have a serial # on the butt that reads right side up with the muzzle to the right.

If there's no serial # on the butt, it's illegal, and tell the owner it shouldn't be for sale.
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:11 AM
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Hello Jim.

If it was your commercial model and your son was going off to war in 1942 wouldn't you have lent or given it to him?

There are a couple of things to be aware of while checking out guns covered with bumper chrome. The chrome and probable copper undercoat are thick enough to cause function problems. Look to see if the barrel was plugged while it was chromed. If the chrome extends part way into the barrel then the barrel may be worthless. Most likely the gun shoots O.K. but I'd look at it critically. Very few if any gunsmiths chose bumper chrome.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:47 AM
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No, I would give him a 1911.

Agreed. Very few if any gunsmiths chose bumper chrome, only owner's do.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:00 AM
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+tax means it must be at a dealer. Maybe they'd pop the side plate off to see if the pitting is inside.

But regardless of that, if it passes all the revolver checks (especially push off), go get it. At $265 you'll always be able to get your money out of it.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:17 AM
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At first look, the logo and roll stamps look pretty clean to me. As far as the price is concerned, I have seen air guns going for that price.

Hard to tell if the hammer and trigger are refinished however, that would be a strong indication of a less than quality refinish job.

It is possible that the gun was stored in the holster or on some type of material that held moisture and caused the one side to rust and pit more than the other.

All of these observations are from a computer monitor and a close up examination would be better.

If I were to buy that gun the first thing I would do is lose the Goodyears and find some original wood stocks. Although I do have rubber on my model 59's that I use for CC, I just don't like the look on revolvers. JMHO.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k22fan View Post
Back when most small towns had an auto body shop with chrome plating tanks a lot of inexpensive guns were refinished with bright bumper chrome. At the time U.S. 1917 .45s were dirt cheap surplus.
Learn something new every day.
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:33 PM
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I can't get the first pic to load, but is it possible it is a Brazilian?
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:48 PM
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It could be a Brazilian but from the minute amount of buffing they did, you should still be able to see the crest and 1937 on the sideplate. Doesn't really matter though, as mechanically they are all the same. If we had the serial number, we could tell if it falls in the SN range for a Brazilian. The catch is some of the commercial models were around that range as well. Again, at this point it is moot whether it is a commercial or Brazilian 'cause it's just a .45 shooter.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:21 PM
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At my local gun shops, they guarantee that a gun they sell will shoot. Verify the same is true at this shop. If you like it, and the looks don't bother you all that much, you will never find one any cheaper.

Just speaking for myself, I would pass. It's just too garish for me, not to mention the refinish over pits abomination. I would save the $265 + tax and put it toward something I would actually like. But remember:
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself."
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:09 PM
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If you pass, let me know. I'm looking for a crusty 1917. Dang it
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:00 PM
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At that price I would have a hard time passing on it as long as timing and lock up were good. It would be a good candidate for a short barrel conversion.
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Old 04-23-2017, 02:37 AM
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No, I would give him a 1911. [...]
A 1911 would have been splendid if you had one at the end of the great depression. That would not have been likely.
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:17 AM
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True, not likely. But call me lucky. My grand dad and dad liked them too.
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by k22fan View Post
Hello Jim.

If it was your commercial model and your son was going off to war in 1942 wouldn't you have lent or given it to him?
Have read of numerous guns that were sent to service members to be used in WWII, probably happened in WWI also.

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Old 04-23-2017, 12:17 PM
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Default 1917 45acp Second Thoughts

At this price it would make a super project gun. In the photos it looks like the really bad pits are along the top strap, those in the cylinder and side plate could be reduced significantly (side plate fit looks like that was done before) and those parts re-plated or if there is a B ahead of the serial number on the barrel flats then the whole gun can be re-blued, which would not highlight the pits that show up with a bright finish. These are great shooters and that factor stands alone as a reason to go for it.
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Old 04-23-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by delta-419 View Post
At this price it would make a super project gun. In the photos it looks like the really bad pits are along the top strap, those in the cylinder and side plate could be reduced significantly (side plate fit looks like that was done before) and those parts re-plated or if there is a B ahead of the serial number on the barrel flats then the whole gun can be re-blued, which would not highlight the pits that show up with a bright finish. These are great shooters and that factor stands alone as a reason to go for it.
A friend has one that was somebodies project gun. It has had the barrel cut down to 2 inches and has been parked. He uses it for a travel gun when he and his wife are on the road.
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:27 PM
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IIRC the hammer was plated, but I don't think the trigger was.

I'm not sure how the plating was accomplished, but if it was the old chrome over copper method it was done very well. Whatever the plating is it is pretty thin - as evidenced by the sharpness of the roll marks. Even the really fine patent marks on the barrel rib are sharp enough to be perfectly legible - I just have a hard time reading tiny print like that on a shiny surface.

I'll be going back to take a second look for sure, and one of the first things I'll do is have them take the Pachmayrs off to see what is underneath.

Taking the side plate off isn't likely to happen - not many retail places that I have ever frequented are going to allow that, for obvious reasons. But I'm not to concerned about the condition of the internals. It doesn't look like it sat immersed in water, and the internals are generally pretty well lubed. Not to mention that it functions very smoothly.

IMO, since virtually all of the pitting is exclusively on one side (with the cylinder rotated to the right position of course) I am pretty convinced that it was left lying on a piece of some kind of textile or possibly in a holster that was damp. That wouldn't likely rust the internal workings.

My reason for thinking that "lying on something wet" is the much more likely scenario is that if it were in a wet holster I would think the pitting would be much more uniformly distributed over the whole gun - not pitted all over one side and nearly pristine on the other. I guess if it were in a holster and the holster were lying on a wet surface it might pit just the one side.

Anyway, I plan on going back to look at it again on Monday, and if there isn't anything under the grips that scares me off, I'll probably buy it, though God only knows why. I don't own anything else in 45acp and I need to add another caliber to my bench about like I need another hole in my head. On the other hand if I shoot and reload 45's that will give me perfect excuse to buy a 1911 shooter to keep it company...

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Old 04-25-2017, 09:51 PM
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Looked it over again, and removed the grips for a better look. A few things that I missed first time that are worth noting.
Hammer AND trigger are both plated.
Serial number on the butt is 177765 - which matches the cylinder and barrel.
No letter N or US property markings on the grip frame, but it does have a lanyard hole - is that normal for a commercial model?
The seller doesn't have any moon clips for it.
I'm still kind of on the fence on this one....
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
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Looked it over again, and removed the grips for a better look. A few things that I missed first time that are worth noting.
Hammer AND trigger are both plated.
Serial number on the butt is 177765 - which matches the cylinder and barrel.
No letter N or US property markings on the grip frame, but it does have a lanyard hole - is that normal for a commercial model?
The seller doesn't have any moon clips for it.
I'm still kind of on the fence on this one....
1. factory did not plate ham & trig.
2. No N or with an N on grip frame and in front of barrel serial # means originally nickel plated. B in both or either location means originally blued.
3. Yes, most Coml models had lanyard swivels.
4. Moon clips are everywhere.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:52 PM
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If you're real lucky, you'll find a piece of wood like this full of half moon clips. That's the way they were shipped overseas for loading. The wooden strips are VERY scarce, however.
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:34 AM
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1. factory did not plate ham & trig.
2. No N or with an N on grip frame and in front of barrel serial # means originally nickel plated. B in both or either location means originally blued.
3. Yes, most Coml models had lanyard swivels.
4. Moon clips are everywhere.
1. Yup - even more evidence of a refinish (not that there was any doubt)
2. That is what I've always understood
3. Good info, thanks for confirming that - I would have thought the lanyard ring was a military-issue thing
4. True, but it would have been nice if some were included.

One interesting thing about this is that the owner had some polymer moon clips for his 625, and we tried them on the 1917. They didn't work because the center hole wasn't big enough to go around the ratchet. I think this one would pretty much require half-moon clips, because the outer diameter of the ratchet is within about 1/16" of the edge of the chamber holes. I'm not sure there are any full moon clips with a big enough hole in the center to fit around the ratchet.

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If you're real lucky, you'll find a piece of wood like this full of half moon clips. That's the way they were shipped overseas for loading. The wooden strips are VERY scarce, however.
Hey Cyrano, if I buy it do you want to sell me a few half-moon clips? looks like you have a pretty good supply.

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Old 04-26-2017, 12:51 AM
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3. You're correct. But most coml models were assembled using surplus military frames which were already drilled for the swivel so S&W filled them with swivels and sold them.

4. It truly would have. The military didn't issue full moons but available for many years for the 1917s. Modern clips are much easier to use than original military and also make full moon clips to fit 1917s.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:02 AM
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Ranch Products used to make all the moon clips that S&W sold. My .45 full moons are probably all over 20 years old. Both the bag from Ranch Products and those that came in small packages from S&W fit my S&W U.S. 1917.

Regarding whether to buy it or not my experience has been that buying guns that would have been collector items if they had been in better shape was a money losing proposition. There will always be another gun around the corner that you'd love to own. If this one does not excite you then wait for one that does.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:45 AM
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Here's another question about this revolver for the experts.

Way back when this was built, were the chambers reamed for the 45 acp to headspace on the cartridge mouth? Or did they rely on the moon clips for proper headspacing?

I ask because I tried inserting a couple of fired 45 acp brass into the cylinder, and this one is reamed much deeper - the 45 acp won't headspace without clips. Maybe it has been reamed for 45 Colt? Or would the 45 Colt round be too long for the cylinder?

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Old 04-26-2017, 06:56 PM
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.

Hey Cyrano, if I buy it do you want to sell me a few half-moon clips? looks like you have a pretty good supply.
I'm trying to fill those wooden frames. They hold 250, I believe, and I've only got about 220 to go. Anyone out there have a LOT of half moon clips to sell?
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:11 PM
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A .45 ACP round should head space on the chamber mouth. It may have been reamed for .45 Colt.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:05 PM
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A .45 ACP round should head space on the chamber mouth. It may have been reamed for .45 Colt.
So the cylinder on a 1917 is long enough to be reamed for a 45 Colt and not have the bullet hanging out the front of the cylinder tying things up? Is that a common modification? How would it affect shooting 45ACP rounds? The difference in case length from .898" (acp case length) to 1.285" (45 Colt case length) leaves a nearly .4" gap for the bullet to jump - which seems like a lot to me.

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Old 04-27-2017, 02:03 AM
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U.S. 1917s were designed to headspace on the case mouth. The few S&W 1917s that I have fired and my 1937 Brazilian do not missfire without moon clips. Early Colt 1917s were bored straight through but the army made Colt change to reaming them so they'd headspace on the mouth.

During the early 1970s George Nonte's articles were regularly published in gun magazines and his books were well known. U.S. 1917s had been inexpensive surplus during the 1950s and 1960s. Nonte wrote about boring 1917s clear through to make them better snake shot revolvers. He made shot shells by shortening .30-06 brass to the length of the cylinder. He used an over shot cardboard wad retained with a .45 Colt seating die's roll crimp. Nonte' project S&W 1917s are the only ones I've read about that require moon clips for headspacing.

How deep do .45 ACP cartridges fall into the 1917 that you are considering? It smells fishy.
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:30 AM
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So the cylinder on a 1917 is long enough to be reamed for a 45 Colt and not have the bullet hanging out the front of the cylinder tying things up? Is that a common modification? How would it affect shooting 45ACP rounds? The difference in case length from .898" (acp case length) to 1.285" (45 Colt case length) leaves a nearly .4" gap for the bullet to jump - which seems like a lot to me.
It sounds pretty certain the cyl is reamed deeper for 45 Colt. You need to try a resized case or a loaded round. It's a fairly common modification, yes.

The cyl is long enough for 45 Colt as long as extra long bullets are not used.

The ACP rounds will have a long bullet jump to the chamber throat. However, accuracy is little affected.
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:32 AM
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You can get full-moon clips that work with the M1917 from Ranch Products. (Midway also sells them). Half-moon clips are also available, but they tend to be rather flimsy and get bent easily. They were designed to be used once and discarded. My favorite is the third-moon clip. They are easy to load/unload without tools and ammunition so clipped stores easily in an ordinary commercial ammo box. All these are available from Ranch Products or Midway.
Here are the three types mentioned above:
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:03 AM
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U.S. 1917s were designed to headspace on the case mouth. The few S&W 1917s that I have fired and my 1937 Brazilian do not missfire without moon clips. Early Colt 1917s were bored straight through but the army made Colt change to reaming them so they'd headspace on the mouth.

During the early 1970s George Nonte's articles were regularly published in gun magazines and his books were well known. U.S. 1917s had been inexpensive surplus during the 1950s and 1960s. Nonte wrote about boring 1917s clear through to make them better snake shot revolvers. He made shot shells by shortening .30-06 brass to the length of the cylinder. He used an over shot cardboard wad retained with a .45 Colt seating die's roll crimp. Nonte' project S&W 1917s are the only ones I've read about that require moon clips for headspacing.

How deep do .45 ACP cartridges fall into the 1917 that you are considering? It smells fishy.
I haven't checked to see exactly how deep the 45 acp case will go into the cylinder, but I intend to. When I tried one I just saw that it went in well past the point of being flush with the rear face of the cylinder. After I removed the case I took a closer look at the chambers in the cylinder and noticed that they looked like they were bored most of the way through - the throats looked like they were only the last 1/4" or so of the cylinder.

Based on what I've seen so far and what Hondo44 says, I'm betting it has been reamed to accept 45 Colt cartridges too. I'll verify that later today. Personally I'd rather it were still able to headspace on the cartridge mouth of the 45 acp - because the 45 acp ammo is WAY cheaper than 45 Colt. For a "shooter" grade gun I'd rather have the convenience option of not using the moonclips with the cheaper ammo. Though I guess the versatility of using two different cartridges has its advantages too, as long as it will shoot both kinds of ammo with acceptable accuracy.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:08 AM
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You can get full-moon clips that work with the M1917 from Ranch Products. (Midway also sells them). Half-moon clips are also available, but they tend to be rather flimsy and get bent easily. They were designed to be used once and discarded. My favorite is the third-moon clip. They are easy to load/unload without tools and ammunition so clipped stores easily in an ordinary commercial ammo box. All these are available from Ranch Products or Midway.
Here are the three types mentioned above:
Good info Jack. I never even knew there was such a thing as a 2-round moon clip. They're cheap too. I like the idea of those, and that's the route I'll probably go if I decide to buy it. Thanks!
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:45 AM
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All things considered it is no bargain. It deserves to be priced low. I would wait for a better 1917 or 1937 Brazilian to come up for sale.
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Old 04-28-2017, 05:15 PM
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All things considered it is no bargain. It deserves to be priced low. I would wait for a better 1917 or 1937 Brazilian to come up for sale.
Well, I appreciate the advice - though I didn't take it I'd already bought it by the time I saw your post.

I went and checked it out again yesterday and it has been reamed for 45 Colt. The round chambers perfectly, though it doesn't headspace tightly against the recoil shield. I checked the firing pin and when it strikes it definitely protrudes far enough through the recoil shield to ignite the primers - even with the extra headspacing. I doubt that I'll shoot any 45 Colt rounds in it anyway. From what I' seeing they are about 3-4 times the cost-per-round of 45 ACP with very similar ballistics.

I laid it right next to a nickel plated Model 36 and I'm more convinced than ever that it has been chromed. The nickel is WAY more yellow than the finish on this gun - which looks even more blue in color when they are side by side.

I talked the seller into letting me take it home for $255 OTD, plus he threw in 100 rounds of fired brass he had lying around. I know this one isn't going to interest any collectors, but that's OK with me. I'm into shooters, and this one is still mechanically sound enough to be a good shooter, even if the pitting is ugly.

I figure I'm not going to find a cheaper way to try out 45s to see if I like the round. I've looked at other 1917s & Brazilians on GunBroker and the shooters are all going for 2-4 times more than I'm into this one. I figure I'll buy a few moon clips and a couple of boxes of 45 ACP to give it a try. If I decide I like 45's (as if I ever shot a round I didn't like), then the next step is getting a set of dies and some bullets to reload.

If for some reason I decide I don't like the 45s, then I'll wager I can at least get my money back out of this one.

Last edited by BC38; 04-28-2017 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:25 PM
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BC38, enjoy that gun. I was hoping you were going to buy it.
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:03 AM
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BC38, enjoy that gun. I was hoping you were going to buy it.
Thanks man. I'm sure I will. I'm a real sucker for the old shooter grade Smiths.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:46 PM
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FWIW I ordered some 2-round moon clips from Ranch Products today. 50 of them for $9 including shipping. Pretty good deal compared to Midway's price of $13.98 PLUS $4.99 "economy" shipping! Basically Midway wanted more than twice the price of buying them direct. Reminds me why I don't buy anything from them unless it is something I can't get anywhere else....

Last edited by BC38; 05-04-2017 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 05-05-2017, 07:22 AM
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Well, I appreciate the advice - though I didn't take it I'd already bought it by the time I saw your post.

I went and checked it out again yesterday and it has been reamed for 45 Colt. The round chambers perfectly, though it doesn't headspace tightly against the recoil shield. I checked the firing pin and when it strikes it definitely protrudes far enough through the recoil shield to ignite the primers - even with the extra headspacing. I doubt that I'll shoot any 45 Colt rounds in it anyway. From what I' seeing they are about 3-4 times the cost-per-round of 45 ACP with very similar ballistics.

I laid it right next to a nickel plated Model 36 and I'm more convinced than ever that it has been chromed. The nickel is WAY more yellow than the finish on this gun - which looks even more blue in color when they are side by side.

I talked the seller into letting me take it home for $255 OTD, plus he threw in 100 rounds of fired brass he had lying around. I know this one isn't going to interest any collectors, but that's OK with me. I'm into shooters, and this one is still mechanically sound enough to be a good shooter, even if the pitting is ugly.

I figure I'm not going to find a cheaper way to try out 45s to see if I like the round. I've looked at other 1917s & Brazilians on GunBroker and the shooters are all going for 2-4 times more than I'm into this one. I figure I'll buy a few moon clips and a couple of boxes of 45 ACP to give it a try. If I decide I like 45's (as if I ever shot a round I didn't like), then the next step is getting a set of dies and some bullets to reload.

If for some reason I decide I don't like the 45s, then I'll wager I can at least get my money back out of this one.
Glad you bought it. You wanted a shooter and said that this one was good mechanically. If you want the basis for a project gun, you have it. If you just want to shoot it, you're there. My 1917 is one of my favorites to shoot.

Since you reload, get some 45 auto rim brass. 45AR is 45ACP with a rim. No pesky clips to deal with and your 1917 now loads like any other revolver. Use 45ACP dies and a .45AR shell holder. It might be my particular 1917 but it is more accurate with 45AR than ACP.
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:43 AM
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Glad you bought it. You wanted a shooter and said that this one was good mechanically. If you want the basis for a project gun, you have it. If you just want to shoot it, you're there. My 1917 is one of my favorites to shoot.

Since you reload, get some 45 auto rim brass. 45AR is 45ACP with a rim. No pesky clips to deal with and your 1917 now loads like any other revolver. Use 45ACP dies and a .45AR shell holder. It might be my particular 1917 but it is more accurate with 45AR than ACP.
Yeah, you know, I thought about that - and I may yet. BUT, from what I'm finding and seeing, new 45 AR brass looks pretty spendy, and once fired looks pretty hard to come by.

I was thinking that since this old workhorse has already been reamed to take the 45 "long" Colt rounds, if I were to start reloading rimmed brass for it, I might as well try to get some of that instead. Once-fired 45 Colt brass sure seems to be a lot more plentiful and less expensive than the 45 AR brass. Unless you know of a good source for me to get some once-fired 45 AR brass.

The other big advantage to using clips and 45 ACP in it is that *if* (when) I get a bottom feeder in 45 ACP (already looking at 1911s) the two can share ammo. I like to keep things simple - or as simple as possible. You know the old saying about "simple things for simple minds!"

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Old 05-05-2017, 06:20 PM
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Yeah, you know, I thought about that - and I may yet. BUT, from what I'm finding and seeing, new 45 AR brass looks pretty spendy, and once fired looks pretty hard to come by.

I was thinking that since this old workhorse has already been reamed to take the 45 "long" Colt rounds, if I were to start reloading rimmed brass for it, I might as well try to get some of that instead. Once-fired 45 Colt brass sure seems to be a lot more plentiful and less expensive than the 45 AR brass. Unless you know of a good source for me to get some once-fired 45 AR brass.

The other big advantage to using clips and 45 ACP in it is that *if* (when) I get a bottom feeder in 45 ACP (already looking at 1911s) the two can share ammo. I like to keep things simple - or as simple as possible. You know the old saying about "simple things for simple minds!"
Looks like you have three options for ammo. That's good. My 1917 isn't as versitile. .

Yes, with all the cowboy action shooting and SAA clones .45 Colt brass is more plentiful than AR brass. Since your 1917 is reamed for .45 Colt that may be a good option. Once fired .45 Colt cases can be reasonably priced. And I hear you about trying to limit calibers- that's why I've avoided buying a .40 and like .357s

With ammo loaded to hardball specs my 1917 happens to be more accurate with the 45 AR rimmed case than the ACP case. Maybe the rim offers more support? I don't know. But you may have to try a couple of options for best accuracy.

Both ACP and .45 Colt are fun to shoot.
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:54 PM
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I finally got a chance to take this one out and put a box of rounds through it. Interesting thing I noticed is that it pierces primers. Just barely - but it does crack the cup enough for there to be a little burned powder residue in the dimple.

Looking it over it seems to me like the hammer nose is a little longer than my other N-frames. I'm thinking that whoever reamed the cylinder for the 45 Colt cartridges also installed a slightly longer hammer nose to ensure reliable ignition and make up for the excess head spacing with the rimmed cartridges vs. the rimless ACP cartridges with moon clips.

At this point I'm wondering if I should get a shorter hammer nose - or if I should even bother trying to do anything about it. After a full box of ammo, there is no soot on the recoil shield, so I don't think there is any significant amount of hot gas blowing back through the primer.

Any thoughts?
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