Need help on a S&W 1917(I think)

BibleronKJV · #1 04-22-2017, 03:34 PM

Recently acquired what looks like a 1917, but there are some unusual things about it that have me puzzled. Gun is in what looks to be completely original configuration, but has no "United States Property" on bottom of barrel and has no markings on the butt and does not look like there were ever any markings there....no evidence of any removal work. The serial number from barrel, cylinder, crane and grips is 137xxx. Has ordnance bomb on frame in front of hammer and eagle head on lower frame, barrel and cylinder. Finish is about 85% and is a "brush blue" variety. Left barrel is marked "S&W D.A.45" and cylinder is standard 45 ACP configuration. Stocks are smooth wood with matching no. in pencil on right stock. No "Made in USA" on frame and so S&W logo on either side of frame. The gun looks completely untouched and shows no evidence of bubba tampering. Any ideas? Ron

Wiregrassguy · #2 04-22-2017, 03:47 PM

Sounds like a military 1917 that someone has removed the United States property stamp and the serial number and US Army on the butt.

Guy

DWalt · #3 04-22-2017, 03:49 PM

Odd that there is nothing stamped on the butt if there is no indication that it has been removed. SN would put it in the range of WWI manufacture. Maybe a lunch pail gun? But the SNed grips, barrel, and cylinder might refute that.

Hondo44 · #4 04-22-2017, 04:08 PM

Unfortunately it's an illegal gun unless you find a serial # stamped on the frame somewhere. Did you check both sides of the grip frame under the stocks?

Sounds like it was a nice original 1917 until someone "wiped" it of all military stamps and reblued it. Definitely not a commercial model.

If made legal it will be a great shooter.

BibleronKJV · #5 04-22-2017, 05:07 PM

Thanks for the input thus far. The mystery is this...the gun has about 80% original finish and there is no sign that the butt markings or the barrel "United States property" marking were ever present and no sign of any type of removal. My initial thought was "lunch bucket", but with all the other markings and serials on barrel, cylinder, crane, star and grips that didn't seem to fit. The gun has sharp metal surfaces, a perfect bore and the sideplate fit is precise which speaks against any refinish. Hammer and trigger show nice case colors. I am not able to post pix which I know would be very helpful in trying to solve this mystery. Is there any possibility that the butt serial and military markings and the barrel military markings were somehow overlooked? That does not seem likely, but any other ideas? Also, the assembly number on the frame crane recess matches the assembly number on the crane so this must be the proper frame for the gun. I am mystified and confused. Please help. Thanks, Ron

Hondo44 · #6 04-22-2017, 05:24 PM

I'm sorry, there's really no mystery, it is what it is.

There are properly done re-blues. There's no other feasible possibility.

BibleronKJV · #7 04-22-2017, 05:45 PM

I note that there is no "Made in U.S.A." on right side of frame. Is this normal? I appreciate all the help thus far, but, if this gun is reblued, it is the best job I have ever seen in my 50 years of gun collecting. I don't mean to be "contrary", but I think that there is something more here than meets the eye. I have not been able to post pix on the forum, but can send pix to an email if someone would like to post them for me. thanks, Ron

Muley Gil · #8 04-22-2017, 06:30 PM

"I note that there is no "Made in U.S.A." on right side of frame."

That stamping did not appear until mid 1922.

Hondo44 · #9 04-22-2017, 06:31 PM

Yes, the MADE IN USA stamp was not introduced until May 1922. So none of the WW I military models like yours will have it.

We've seen dozens of 1917s like yours on this forum. It seems that depending on how they were acquired, owners didn't want to get caught with a gun that marked US PROPERTY. You've described that yours has all the normal inspector stamps of a WW I issue 1917.

If it has nice matching blue under barrel and on the butt, it had a nice blue job after being wiped.

BibleronKJV · #10 04-22-2017, 06:39 PM

Computer is acting up. Thanks to all. This forum is great! Ron

handejector · #11 04-22-2017, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

I'm sorry, there's really no mystery, it is what it is.

There are properly done re-blues. There's no other feasible possibility.

Well, thar ya go- shavin with Ockham's razor agin.
Did ya askt him if ya cud?

Hondo44 · #12 04-22-2017, 06:54 PM

Nope. But if I use it correctly I generally get a good shave.
And no complaints from William.

AlHunt · #13 04-22-2017, 07:17 PM

Here are the aforementioned pics.

BibleronKJV · #14 04-22-2017, 07:24 PM

Thanks again Al for your help with the pics. Sorry for the poor quality, but I hope that they will help. Ron

handejector · #15 04-22-2017, 07:33 PM

The butt and the front half of the barrel show definite signs of cold blue.

BibleronKJV · #16 04-22-2017, 09:09 PM

Was able to look the gun over in bright sunlight and I agree about a cold blue touchup on butt and underside of barrel. Mystery solved! Thanks for all the input. Looks like I bought a real nice shooter grade 1917.....bore is perfect and mechanics are excellent so I guess that I should be happy. All's well that ends well. Ron