Picked up my first 2" M&P a couple of weeks ago.





Old style hammer block, no sign of an "S" anywhere.





Seems to have been carried a lot, based on the wear at the grip frame, but shot little.


Regards,
Bruce

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Regards,
Bruce

That's a nice one! Thanks for posting it for us to see.

Curl

That is a dandy, and the leather is GREAT too

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On the Oak Savannah

Thank you. I'm proud of that leather. It's a Myres Barton Special by way of turnerriver (Thanks again, John).

Regards,
Bruce

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Regards,
Bruce

That's really interesting. A serial indicating 1940 production. By that time, full-scale production for the military contracts, especially the British/South African etc. had started, so the round-butt frames must have just been put on a shelf for the duration.

Very interesting.
It is the first true pre-war style M&P I've ever seen that shipped post war.
Cool.

It appears to have satin blue. Correct?
Are you dead certain it does not have the modern hammer block?

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Correct. Satin blue, in great shape aside from wear on the grip frame.

I have not pulled the side plate, but I have compared it to several of my pre-war M&P's and also to my one other post-war K frame. There is nothing inside which moves downward as it is cocked.

Regards,
Bruce

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Regards,
Bruce

I remember other postings with similar snubbies which had pre-WWII round butt frames and black plastic grips, but shipped after the war. About the only way to explain it is the previous speculation that S&W had some boxed-up prewar round-butt K-frames which remained in storage throughout the war which they made up for commercial sale during the postwar era. You likely have a quite valuable piece there, maybe a lot more than you assume.

Posters, please keep me in mind if anybody runs across one of these in this configuration. I don't care about pre or post, just must look like this. Thanks.

Bruce:

Beautiful M&P snubbie. It would be hard for me to own such a valuable gun, because I just can't resist shooting all of my guns. Well, I'll bet it's been shot at least a little bit...probably wouldn't hurt to run a few rounds through it. I know that it's heresy, but they were made to shoot!!

Billy:

Just three years later, see all of the changes (please excuse the wrong era T Grip... Had it on for a shooting session)... Anyway, note the walnut stocks and hammer change as well. Shipped in 1949, three years after Bruce's gun, but looks significantly different.



Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I agree with the other posters... You've got a real winner there!!!

I've owned one of the early post war M&Ps with a RB and the modern hammer block that have a long action.
They are numbered in the 800,000 range. There is no S on the butt because there is no room- the 6 digits use it all. The S is with the barrel number.
They look just like this- satin blue and black grips.

I wonder when the frames were numbered?
Perhaps a block that was numbered higher than the current production in the 30s, or numbered with the second million in 1945-46??? If numbered after the war, why didn't they use a smaller font so the S would fit on the butt? I doubt we'll ever know.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Here is gun Lee is referring to one of first 100 shipped after WW 2. Looks very much like the above post.

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SWCA 1932 SWHF 135

Les,
Never fear, I shoot all of mine too. Even the 1899 Target.

Regards,
Bruce

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Regards,
Bruce

bruce5781

That was a very cool find. Congratulations!

What would be most interesting to me is whether the other nine units shipped to Warshal were also prewar guns. Since at least 100 round butt 2" revolvers with serial numbers in the S833xxx range were shipping at about the same time as yours (I show some that left the factory in August, 1946) one wonders if the 10 that went to Seattle were a mixture of prewar and early postwar guns, at least by serial number. If all 10 were prewar guns with lower serial numbers and lacked the sliding hammer block safety, that would be an interesting historical anomaly to know about. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Fascinating!

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

This was Roy's response when I requested a ship date before purchasing this gun. It led me to believe he was familiar with them.


Regards,
Bruce

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Regards,
Bruce

...a one liner with a 2" barrel...definitely one I'd like to have...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

Bruce:

This has been posted elsewhere, but this is an advertisement that appeared in 1946:



Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Thanks, Les

Regards,
Bruce

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Regards,
Bruce

I don't know what all the fuss is about 2" M&P's . All of these are from 52, 57, 67.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

When I lettered 833889 it came back as a 5 inch 38/200. I used the serial on butt and then I asked for letter including the "S" and got the info that gun was one of first 100 shipped after WW 2. I wonder if others trying to letter similar guns by number on butt only did not follow up as I did.

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SWCA 1932 SWHF 135

Thanks les! Exactly my point, but made much better by your example. Love those stocks/grips on your gun!

I am a little confused by what happened. It seems as though you first lettered yours as SN 833889 and it came back as a 5" BSR, then re-lettered it as SN S833889 and it came back as a 1946 snubby. Even though the SN on yours did not have the S prefix anywhere. Correct? On my list is SN S8339xx which shipped in 8/46, but I don't show if it is a snubby (either round or square butt) or not.

DWalt
It has no S on the butt, but there is one on the barrel flat. It turns out this is not unheard of because of the lack of room on the round butt for the S when the larger number stamps were used. At least that was my understanding. I would be interested to know if the S is on the rear face of the cylinder.

Toyman? What say you?

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Bruce: You're breaking my heart.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

Randy, I feel your pain. Every time I look at some of yours. 😊

Regards,
Bruce

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Regards,
Bruce

JP@AK: I don't remember been several years ago but I don't think so
The "S" on barrel was hard to see , Terry Popkin took photos at a S&W meeting in 2009 and it shows the "S" very clearly.
This gun was shipped 08/22/1946.

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SWCA 1932 SWHF 135

recently i acquired a 15-3 snub i have been trying to understand the rational for the juxtaposition of a 2" barrel with square grips. am i to understand that the reason for the larger grip was to absorb recoil from a fuller loaded cartridge?

you snagged a real prize.....

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Simple. Round butt Combat Masterpiece revolvers weren't being built in those years.

The USAF was buying tons of Model 15s for our use in Vietnam, with both 2" and 4" barrels. Air crews were carrying them with both lengths. Security Police, dog handlers and ammo troops were carrying the 4" version. We saw nothing odd at all about the combination of a 2" barrel and a square butt. Believe me, we were not the least bit concerned with concealed carry at the time!

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

That snub is the cats meow.

There is a pic in Post #13 showing the S on the barrel.
As I recall, it did not have an S on the cylinder.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I wrote two Journal articles about these revolvers. I own 694101, 694105, and 694106. With specific regards to distinguishing between the earlier and later revolvers, I've copied a small amount of material in my later story, that I show next.



(The earlier story is in the August 1993 Vol 27 No. 2, and the later story is in Summer 2019 Vol 53 No. 2 .)

The easiest way to tell the difference between the two variants is by the size of the font, and the orientation of the serial number, on the butt. The size of the font is the focus of Fig 12 in the above picture, and the butt orientation of the serial number is displayed in Fig 13 of the above picture. The height of the font in the pre-war frames is 2.5 mm, and is 3.0 mm in the post-war frames.

(I notice that the text in the above picture has an error. Fig 12 is showings serial numbers 694106 & 105, not 694101 & 105. 694101 has exactly the same orientation as the other two.)

In regards to the question about getting a different factory letter depending on whether or not the serial number is prefixed with an 'S', whether it is or not, the answer is very simple. The shipping information for the pre-war frames, like 694101, 105, & 106, are found in a volume of the shipping records that does not go beyond serial number 999999. The shipping information for the post-WW2 S-serial numbers are found in a later volume. As always, but particularly with these pre and post war snubbies, one has to be careful to be certain that they have the right serial number.

Another way of looking at this is to note the first series of K-frame .38 serial numbers run from 1 to 999999. The second series, which uses the same number series of 1 to 999999, has serial numbers first running from V1 to approximately V811119, and then continues on from S811120 to S999999.

(The discussion here is not concerned about the SV or VS serial number prefixes!)

Regards, Mike Priwer

The 2" snubbies, that are relevant to this discussion, were all shipped about 6 years later than expected, generally in Aug of 1946. There has been numerous suggestions in trying to explain this, but it has never been resolved.

However, the historian has looked into this abnormality, and has identified 3 pre-WW2, and 1 post-WW2, serial number ranges that show this late shipping date. These ranges are:

692408 - 692457
693554 - 693582
694033 - 694141
(S)833858 - (S)833957

Regards, Mike Priwer

I love the knowledge that can flow from serialization studies.

The S833xxx revolvers are noteworthy for another reason: nearly two thirds of the production in this range were units of the Model of 1946 Target, or "Mexican." The last block of serial numbers assigned to the 1946 Targets is said to be 833701-833860. This creates a minor data discrepancy in that this range overlaps by three the range identified by Mike for the earliest two-inch M&Ps produced and shipped after the end of WWII.

This ought to be a matter easily resolved by the Historian. My plate is full through the near future, but I will try to get around to asking the question in a few days.

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David Wilson

David

Clearly, either the problem is with the last three serial numbers of the Mexican models, or the first three serial numbers of the 2" snubbie block. I suppose that if no one tries to letter a gun with those three serial numbers, it won't be a problem!

Regards, Mike Priwer