Hello,
I do not know if I publish correctly. I have a SW whose model I do not know. Its serial number is 968270 and no other letters are mentioned. I think it's earlier a model 1905. manufactured between 1940 and 1945
If someone can help me, for his dating
Thanks to all
greetings

It is a Military and Police model, very possibly a British .38/200 service revolver. It is in unusually good condition. It dates from early 1942.

It looks like a British Service model that has the pre-war blue finish and checkered wood stocks. The serial number 968270, falling as DWalt says into spring 1942, is very high for that; we pretty much have all utility finish and smooth stocks by the time the serials hit 900,000.

Are you certain that the first digit is a 9? A 6 or 8, which can look similar, would make more sense.

You should check to see if the same serial number is stamped on the inside of the right grip panel. It is possible that the checkered grips are original. Some collectors would call yours (assuming that it is a British service revolver) a pre-Victory model. But the blued finish is likely to be correct for that time.

The barrel markings are hard to read, but are too short to include the word "SPECIAL." The rollmark must then read .38 S&W CTG, which indicates (some would say "confirms") production for Commonwealth use. Another gun that also chambers the .38 S&W round and with nearby serial number 968095 is known. It was shipped in May 1942.

__________________
David Wilson

It does indeed. Attached a somewhat enhanced version of the OP's first photo.

The light reflection of the finish does indicate the sandblast/brush blue finish which would be correct for the serial starting with 9. The stocks are ill-fitting and are unlikely on a gun this late, so I'd be surprised if they numbered to the gun.

Attached Images

BSR.jpg (136.7 KB, 72 views)

Bienvenue sur les forums du Wiregrass! That is a very nice example of a World War II British Service Revolver! Toutes nos félicitations!

__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Well!....I speak THREE languages; fluent Southern, fluent pig Latin AND rudimentary English! Top That, if you can Wiregrass - if that's your real name!

__________________
Jeb

As a brief note Absalom, you might want to consider raising your "general rule" just a little. I use 950xxx. In my data I show April '42 as a fairly consistent date for shipping brush blue revolvers with smooth grips and March of 42 as blue revolvers with checkered grips. Though there are lots of exceptions! I have a May 15 shipment of a polished blue with checkered grips to Washington DC, its serial is 898176.

My usual dividing line is Mar - Apr 42' I have 953357 shipped on 31 March in blue with matching checkered grips and a 29 April 42' shipment of 974071 in brush blue with smooth grips.

The lack any finish on the original posts hammer & trigger suggest to me it has not been refinished.

Ain't no thang!

Guy

__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

I would be very careful with any "dividing line". You also have to distinguish between the BSR's and US Victorys, and take into consideration the still existing unclarity about the brush blue/sandblast blue/black oxide-Black Magic/Parkerizing transition period in the first half of 1942 when talking about the finish.

I have the records on the Gosnell shipment you reference from May 15, but the letter acknowledges that that's an outlier. On the other hand, I own a 910507 from a shipment of 100 to the DSC from Jan 27, 1942 with smooth stocks and Black Magic oxide (although the letter mistakenly calls it Midnight Black), clearly indicating that the transition to utility finish and smooth stocks was in place by that date. We have had pre-Victory BSR's with smooth stocks in the very high 800-thousands here.

This also puts the May 15 shipment in perspective; with my 910 shipping at the end of January, that 898 that shipped in May was likely produced the previous December.

This does not invalidate your data points, but assuming any dividing line as late as March/April is IMHO a few months too late. There was no line, but a transition period from about December to February 1942, and any checkered stocks shipped after that were leftovers or exceptions like the Gosnell order.

And the whole finish sequence between the end of polished Carbonia blue and the adoption of the proprietary "Midnight Black" phosphate sometime in the summer of 1942 has still not been settled to anyone's satisfaction.

The finish chronology given in Carl Hellstrom's factory notes seems to be:

Carbonia Blue - the normal S&W finish used until latter 1941.

Brush Blue (Black Magic Blue). A hot dip oxide blue with a wire brush metal surface preparation prior to bluing, starting in late 1941 at around SN 860000 (ca. 10/41). Black Magic is a proprietary metal finishing process sold by the Hubbard-Hall Company, very similar to the hot bluing process used today by most gun manufacturers and gunsmiths. Hubbard-Hall still sells Black Magic today. There is mention made that Black Magic may have been used to a limited extent by S&W as early as August 1940, probably on a test and evaluation basis.

Surface preparation was changed to sand (ceramic bead?) blasting in 3/42, continuing with the use of Black Magic oxide blue.

Parkerizing was used only during the period 5/4/42-5/9/42 (close to the beginning of the V- series on 4/24/42). There was apparently a dispute over royalty payments to the Parker Rustproofing Company, and the finish was quickly changed to some similar generic phosphating process that did not require royalty payments, and was continued for the rest of the war. This phosphate finish was called "Military Midnight Black," and it is unclear as to whether it was developed by S&W, or purchased from another outside source, and exactly what it was.

Factory letters frequently confuse "Black Magic" oxide bluing with "Military Midnight Black" phosphate finish probably because some factory records are incorrect in their use of finish terminology. They are not the same. Substantially all Victory (V-series) revolvers (except for some very early ones) will have the "Military Midnight Black" phosphate finish, not "Black Magic."

There are numerous variations of the phosphating process using different chemicals which result in different finish colorations. Whether S&W used exactly the same phosphate chemical composition or varied it throughout the war is unknown.

Hello all
Thank you for your answers, which helped me a lot.
I am not very comfortable with your language that is why I reply has delayed because I navigate difficult on this forum.
At your request I will be able to send you the photos you wish.
cordially

Where are Hellstrom's notes located?

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett