https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...-wesson#detail

Some pitting right side of barrel, serial #30, but not in the original .44 Special series, but in .455 Eley produced for the British market (.455 Mark II Hand Ejector First Model). Plus 15% commission on top of that. More than triple what I would have expected...

serial number 30 and the condition.

Charlie

Exactly this.

That's very nice condition for such a gun. Serial number 30 also makes it extremely desirable. Combine the two, and add a couple guys who want the gun? It's going to get expensive.

"More than triple what I would have expected..."

You meant Triple Lock, right? .

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Yes, but, in my opinion, neither of these attributes are extraordinary. Serial number 30, a series within a series. Condition definitely above average, but not enough to warrant a significant premium.

Pretty tough for it to be a birthyear gun for someone but that is always a factor, I know I've chased a few for that reason but bailed because it wasn't the right caliber to go crazy on. Condition is everything, the serial number could also be big...there are so many variables with auctions.

I don't think that's a significant premium these days. More and more people are interested in guns, and triple locks have a particular mystique. All it takes is one guy getting out of cars and into guns who wants a good example of a triple lock, fighting someone else who really wants it.

Guns are very very cheap for a lot of guys who are wealthy.

Not really. If you are looking for the perfect way to celebrate your 103rd birthday, this would be it!

Guns ARE cheap, relative to other stuff you could blow your money on. And, I guess if you sell a few cars at Barratt-Jackson, a grand total of $4,887.50 could seem like chump change. But I, personally, like to feel like I got a deal!

If you ever want to sell any TLs, give me a call.

///////////////////////////////////////////////

Show me a pic of another 455 TL that nice.
In 50+ years of handling these guns, it is the 2nd nicest one I have seen.
Then, a 2 digit number is worth whatever it is worth to the bidder.

This is the ONLY one nicer I have ever seen-
The Young LT's Triple Lock .455

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

So are you saying that you think that I overpaid????

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James Redfield
LM #497

Looks like a pretty nice S&W to me.

From a guy who throws nickels around like manhole covers!

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Don Mundell

#1. I don't think it was over paid for!

#2. It's labeled a mishmash of the four different models of 455: "Commercial First Model .455 Hand Ejector Mark II Triple Lock Double Action Revolver with British Proofs" and it can only be one of those.


The four versions of 455 chambered TLs:

The first 3 are for the British military contract:

1. 44 HE - 1st Model factory conversions to 455. These serial #s are known and they do not include serial #30.

2. 455 HE - 1st Model originally built as 455s. Serial #s 1 to 5461.
It could be and is most likely one of these.

3. 455 HE - 2nd Model. These are the Mark IIs and stamped as such by the British, but are not TLs and therefore can not be the subjest TL.

4. Then there is the commercial 44 HE -1st Model not built for the British contract. We've seen them chambered in other cartridges which are the rarest of TL chamberings, like 44 Russian, 38/40, 44/40, 45 Colt, and 455 versions (Eley, Webley, Mk II, etc.). Unless someone knows what the commercial TL #30 is chambered in by letter or from the database, conceivably this could be the subject TL, and the rarest of 455s made.

It's well known the British were scrambling for handguns and swept the USA for any commercial models of reasonably suitable calibers for defense of their homeland.

A letter is mandatory IMHO. The auction TL clearly did not see military service unless it was from the holster of an officer. Officers were responsible for providing their own sidearm. It could have been ordered directly from S&W as a commercial model 44 HE - 1st Model chambered for the 455.

But whichever it is, the number is very low and the condition is extremely fine.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The pre-auction estimate for this one was $1800 to $2750. Of course, this is an estimate only, and hammer prices can vary wildly from estimates, but I guess unless I really want something very incredibly badly, or, if the estimate is inexplicably low, I am not one who is inclined to bid markedly over the high end estimate. I want to at least feel like I got a "deal", but, whether or not this is actually true could be open to debate.

Since knowledge is power (!!!), I cracked open SCSW, 4th Edition, and here is what it states, page 195: .455 Mark II Hand Ejector 1st Model: ANIB: $8000, Exc +, $6000, Exc, $4000. The minor pitting on the barrel of this one did bother me, but it still is at least Excellent although not Excellent +. The SCSW does state, p. 12, that "we have tried to reflect the actual marketplace prices at which items exchange hands between a buyer and a seller, both of whom are willing and motivated to close a deal in a gun show type setting." Of course, the book goes on to explain the caveats and how prices can vary wildly. What this book is NOT, when it comes to valuation, and this is a breath of fresh air, is full retail and then some, as most of the other books are (except Flayderman's, which, if you can purchase anything remotely close to what he states, a bargain indeed! Granted, his book contains valuations from some time ago, but I would argue they seem low even for when as published). So, I suppose the price paid yesterday, in light of the facts, is not full retail--but close to it--and is a "fair" price to the right person. Of course, there is the possibility of a bidding war, more or less, and one bidder decided he or she had to have this gun for up to $4,000, and the next bidder did not, and his or her bid of $4250 became the hammer price.

As I have said in previous threads, to the hot dog vendor, $4,000 for a S&W might seem crazy. To the computer whiz kid that just sold his dot com company for 10 billion dollars, it's mere pocket change.

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James Redfield
LM #497

That figure might shock me and the hot dog vendor, but I don't think you have to be a computer whiz kid to pay that much. Look at all the old coots who have been pinching pennies all their lives and have beaucoup stashed away in retirement accounts. (Present company excluded of course! )

Is it that hard to believe that such a person might say "I have always wanted one, I am not going to live forever, oh heck, I'm gonna peel off four grand and get it!" He might even convince himself it is a better investment than the stock market.

You can say that again. They were even buying copies of the S&W top break from various makers in Spain! Chambered in .455 of course.

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You're shy a few manners.

ROFL. Direct and "on target", LOL !

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Makes my flippin' thumb hurt just thinking of it.

It's good for us guys who have one.

But Lee's that was owned by the Canadian Lt. was the most beautiful, complete and well researched I've ever seen.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

"But I, personally, like to feel like I got a deal!" (mcrvs, post #9)

Well there you have it. You're motivated by getting a deal----and you're not alone. There are others motivated by possessing very special, very spiffy items. Those latter folks are at least a little bit pleased you're out there-----cuts down on the competition.

You might want to think about why you're attracted to "a deal". Perhaps it's because you're overly concerned with money. Such concern is entirely appropriate if you have a pile of money that has to last you until the end---or a long time----whichever comes first-----AND you're never going to get any more (money). On the other hand, it has always seemed like I get more money pretty much every day. It seems like everyone else does too---including the folks on welfare. So much for vent number one.

Now let's talk about the estimates placed on stuff by auction houses. We'll start off by recalling the auction's job is to sell stuff to buyers. Job one then would seem to be attracting buyers. The auction folks have learned there are lots of folks who like to feel like they got a deal. They've also learned low estimates attract buyers----or at least bidders. The auction folks have also learned some bidders go a little bit nuts----and end up bidding more than that destined to get "a deal"----and all is well. Here's a little experiment you might want to try sometime: Ask RIA (or any of several others) what they reckon such and such item of yours might fetch at action. Then check out the estimate for that item that shows up in the catalog. The big number they gave you in order to get the consignment was to get the consignment------they need stuff to sell. The little number you'll see in the catalog is to get bidders----they need them to sell stuff to.

Let me suggest you will NEVER get a deal at RIA----and others of similar ilk----similar ilk being auctions which attract large numbers of bidders. (We can talk about other ilks another time.) Let me also remind you of something you already know: Deals (sometimes SCREAMING DEALS) are to be had at nobody, nowhere auctions pretty much all the time----IF/WHEN the nobody, nowhere auctions happen to come up with something really attractive-------which doesn't happen very often.

Bottom Line: Every single buyer of every single item feels like they got a deal----never mind some deals are better than others.

Ralph Tremaine

1. Low serial number
2. Desireable
3. How bad you want it
4. Auction playing with the big boy toys.
5. We only pass this way once.
6. No brinks armored truck in a funeral seen yet.
7. Breakout the piggy bank.
8. He who has the most toys wins.

Enjoy life because it's so short.

This did I get a deal thing cracks me up. Ok we save where we can but pay more for others it all comes out even in the wash trust me. There's a time to turn and burn, a time to be frugal, a time to get the moths out of your wallet and buy it.

Yup, a desirable gun, and two or more buyers who need it to fill a hole in their collections = bidding war. Be nice to have been the seller of that one.

I have bought items at auction before and gotten deals. In every auction, there are "sleepers", sometimes an item isn't described properly, the other person who wanted it as badly, or more so than you, was buying a hot dog at the time the item came up, etc. With the advent of internet bidding, these scenarios are increasingly rare--but possible.

Auction strategy dictates the auction house wishes to secure the largest bid, attract good inventory, and able and willing buyers.

One has to decide how badly one wants an item, and this is part of bidder psychology. I didn't want it nearly as badly as others did. Sometimes, if I want something badly enough, I might not feel like I got a deal, and maybe even the successful bidder doesn't feel like they got a deal--but they feel rewarded, even if they think they overpaid for this, because it fills a void in their collection, they just want to have it and eventual resale is not a concern, etc.

Any ideas why this brought $4250?

Simple - somebody with a lot of money really wanted it!

Ever been to an auction ?

If yes, did you happen to notice how some people at auctions check their common sense at the door or how some very intelligent persons are struck with stupidity as soon as they enter the building (it is temporary while inside and all will return to normal when they exit the property)............

I have seen perfectly normal people who when confronted with something they always wanted at an auction completely go berserk if there is someone else there who also wants the same item....bidding wars start and all heck breaks loose and runs amok.

If they got the funds and want it that bad so be it.....congrats to them.......

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Hipcocked45

At least one other person thought it was worth near this. I've been on both sides of this as a winner and a loser. I like it better when I win, but I always have a final figure in mind, always.

Do I have a good collection of firearms, Smith & Wessons, as well as Winchesters, Colts, Sharps, and Merwin & Hulberts? Yes. Is it "above average"? Depends on your definition of"average". Is it truly GREAT? No. First, in order to have a truly GREAT collection, you probably need to have more money than I have. Could I have a decent collection with a few "above average" specimens? Well, I do have that, and, had I wanted this Triple Lock badly enough, I could have had it, but I decided what my high end limit was, and when it was easily surpassed, that was the end of even coming close to owning this Triple Lock.

I think--no, I KNOW--in order to have a truly GREAT collection in this day and age, you have to focus on the collection first and foremost, and worry about what it cost/ is it a good investment secondly or not at all.

And, in the end, what might be perceived to be a terrible investment at the time of purchase might (probably more often than not) reward the seller or the seller's estate handsomely at the time of future, eventual sale.

I have been doing this for about 50 years. If no one paid more than the "book" price for a firearm, than I would still be buying my guns for the 1967 book prices. I have found I might worry I paid too much for a gun and others may have told me that at the time. Only to have someone five years later tell me that I had "stole it" back then.

I always believed in buying the best quality you can find and paying a fair price for it. And, if it was in those last few percentage points 95% and up, you can just about throw the book away ... especially, if it is a scarce model.

I purchased my 52A in 1995 ( enhancing the story is that I searched for one for about 10 years in the pre-internet "dark ages" ) over the "then" book price of ANIB, IIRC somewhere around $1850.00 with the shipping box and receipt from Cherry's where the first owner purchased. My friend Mike (RIP) ragged me all the way home and for the next year, relentlessly, until he tried to buy one himself.

Try to buy a 52A ANIB now ! Same thing for my nicest, original, New Model 3 Target Models. All of them, regardless of caliber, barrel length and finish, but especially the .44s and the .44s with 8" barrels and the NM 3 Target in .45 S&W Schofield. I had never seen a NM3T in .45 S&W Schofield other that the one in Jinks & Neal's book where there is a picture of one that was owned by Robert Neal (RIP). Ed had written an article in the S&WCA Journal years back about the NM3 (non-target) in .45 S&W where he posted pix of one or two but they were non-targets and in well used, e.g. service useage it seemed, condition.

Some people will not buy unless they get a bargain. That's OK. No harm in someone trying to bargain but then there are the "bottom feeder" types that want gold for the price of sand. There's no dealing with people like that, I feel.

Ray Brazille (RIP) was a collector and dealer of fine vintage S&Ws for many decades. When Ray had a sweet S&W, it was "RIGHTEOUS" and you PAID a righteous price ... but ... if you had something he wanted, HE also paid a higher price for it than near anyone else.

I had a sign in my garage that went (this may not be "the" exact quote but close to it) :

" Quality is like buying oats. You must pay a fair price.
... However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have been through the horse ... they come a lot cheaper".

Attached Images

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425