38 Special M&P circa 1923

gunnails · #1 05-11-2017, 04:07 PM

I have been wanting a cool older Smith, not sure why and i sure don't need it but this came up local for $300 and I jumped on it.IMG_0541.jpg

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gunnails · #2 05-11-2017, 04:13 PM

All numbers match including the grips, bore and chambers are shiny, most of the bluing is present and no signs of a refinish. The cylinder has turned a bit plum color which I know not all like but I do.

5 inch barrel is a first for me, and the trigger and hammer retain their case colors.

I am thrilled with it, except the action is heavy and not smooth, even the single action is a bit stout.

Timing and lock up seems excellent with no end shake.

The previous owner bought it for $175 cause there was something wrong in it internally and he claimed the barrel was canted to the left, so he sent it to a local smith who tried to line up the barrel (looks fine to me) and did some unknown work inside for a total of $88 plus his $25 shipping cost.

ParadiseRoad · #3 05-11-2017, 04:14 PM

...everyone should own at least one prewar S&W...yours is a nice mid 20s example...

Absalom · #4 05-11-2017, 04:33 PM

Looks good. Five-inchers were fairly popular at that time. Here's 450345, shipped May 1923 for Minneapolis PD.

gunnails · #5 05-11-2017, 04:41 PM

Does anyone think the hammer spring may of been replaced causing the heavy pull?

I am ashamed to admit I don't have a proper screw driver to remove the side plate to check to see if things are gunked up inside, I would assume not considering it has been to a smith recently?

DWalt · #6 05-11-2017, 08:55 PM

I have one in pure mint condition which is a little older than yours - early 1922. S&Ws from that period have great workmanship. Grips at that time were numbered with a pencil. In most cases, it is impossible, or nearly so, to see the grip numbers. So don't worry if you can't see one - the grips are probably correct. I remember paying $325 for mine about five years ago. Unfortunately no original box came with it.

gunnails · #7 05-11-2017, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWalt

I have one in pure mint condition which is a little older than yours - early 1922. S&Ws from that period have great workmanship. Grips at that time were numbered with a pencil. In most cases, it is impossible, or nearly so, to see the grip numbers. So don't worry if you can't see one - the grips are probably correct. I remember paying $325 for mine about five years ago. Unfortunately no original box came with it.

==========================

My grips are numbered to the gun. If you look real hard and kinda squint you can see the number in my picture.

Did your cylinder turn plum at all?

How is the trigger for your M&P?

DocB · #8 05-11-2017, 10:00 PM

Yeah, I would have jumped on that too. Don't see as many out for sale as you did a few years back. Five inch barrel is fairly common in that gun. I was stacking them up in the $250 - $300 range, and am glad I did. Here's a couple of them. I would pay up to $350 if one was really nice. You can never have too many of these.

VNK971 · #9 05-11-2017, 10:26 PM

I have a 5", sn 449721, that I picked up for $180 a few months back. I made a bid on it because the high bid was so low. It doesn't look like much, but the double action trigger is very smooth. I put some newer targets on it and I love it. It goes to the range with me every time I go.

Added the pics...

JP@AK · #10 05-12-2017, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocB

Yeah, I would have jumped on that too. Don't see as many out for sale as you did a few years back. Five inch barrel is fairly common in that gun. I was stacking them up in the $250 - $300 range, and am glad I did. Here's a couple of them. I would pay up to $350 if one was really nice. You can never have too many of these.

Boy! Those sure look like 6" barrels to me. Am I just getting old with fading eyesight?

murphydog · #11 05-12-2017, 07:59 AM

My rule of thumb for looking at photos of K frames is the 5" barrel (muzzle to cylinder face) is almost exactly the length of the frame (cylinder face to far end of grip frame). Since we humans value visual symmetry highly, I think this is part of the appeal of 5" barrel K frames

.

DocB · #12 05-12-2017, 08:16 AM

Yup, those 2 do have 6 inch barrels. . .my favorite. I'll find a 5 inch one here somewhere. So many pics to look through. Here are 2 I think have 5 inch barrels. . .one a 38 and one a 32-20. Actually, on second look, that 32-20 has a 4 inch tube.

murphydog · #13 05-12-2017, 08:34 AM

Yes, a 4" K frame barrel goes roughly an inch past the forward locking point. The two 6" barrels go about half and half between the forcing cone and locking point, and locking point to muzzle.

Does this mean I look at too many photos?

Peak53 · #14 05-12-2017, 09:18 AM

The trigger on that gun should be smooooth, given it's age and long enough period for breaking in.

The fact that the previous owner noticed a problem and had it worked on is a bit of a flag. If it were mine I would definitely be taking off the side plate for a peek. You are wise in not going in without the proper tools. Go to Brownells and get one of their screwdriver kits for SW. It's a small investment that will pay dividends.

There is a right way to remove the sideplate. With the grips off and the sideplate screws out, tap the grip frame smartly with a rubber or plastic mallet or similar tool. The sideplate will pop off. Do not pry anything with anything. Keep the screws in order as they must go back in the same holes. Check youtube for videos or search on this forum for complete instructions.

Targets Guy · #15 05-12-2017, 09:25 AM

My 6" barrel shipped in 1914. Still shoots good.

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Kenny D · #16 05-12-2017, 11:21 AM

If you are reluctant to take the side plate off, remove the grips and squirt CLP or something similar into every crack and crevice to clean the innards. Hang it over trashcan by the barrel overnight to see if gunk flushes out. If no improvement try again several times. If this doesn't work, then try getting the sideplate off. It worked for me!

JP@AK · #17 05-12-2017, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocB

Yup, those 2 do have 6 inch barrels. . .my favorite. I'll find a 5 inch one here somewhere. So many pics to look through. Here are 2 I think have 5 inch barrels. . .one a 38 and one a 32-20. Actually, on second look, that 32-20 has a 4 inch tube.

Yep. That's better!

Here is a .32-20 with a 5" barrel. This is a very early (and rare) target model. It letters to March, 1904 (stocks are later).

Here are two early postwar M&P revolvers, one with a 4" and the other a 5" barrel, for comparison. (Unfortunately, I don't have photos of any of the 6" S prefix M&Ps that are in my safe, or I'd add one of those here too.)

JSR III · #18 05-12-2017, 01:34 PM

I agree with the liquid clean up as opposed to removing the side plate. One slip with even a proper screwdriver and you have given the gun a black eye. 100 year old oil or grease can turn to glue after so many years but removing the side plate should be a last resort. Good luck with your new toy....

PALADIN85020 · #19 05-12-2017, 01:34 PM

I also have a Model 1905, 4th change that dates to April, 1923 according to Roy Jinks. It remains in near-perfect condition after 94 years, looking like it was just picked up off the production line. This one has a six-inch barrel. Holding it is like experiencing a time-warp back to the '20s. By the way, the electric clock pictured was a gift from my uncle (my dad's brother) to my mom and dad when they were married in October of 1936. It's 80 years old and still keeping perfect time. I learned to tell time on it as a young kid.

John

DocB · #20 05-12-2017, 01:59 PM

Let's not forget the 6 and 1/2 inch barrel ones. The are rare as hen's teeth around here. They shut down that barrel length in 1909, so the gun has to be really early (first 10 years of production) to have it. The exception, of course, is Smith using up the long barrels in inventory through the very early teens. Had to hunt a bit to find this picture I used to post a lot. A special order gun from 1910. I should add that I paid $800 for this thing. . .a bit out of my $250-$350 price range.