|
|
05-18-2017, 02:14 PM
|
US Veteran SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: upstate SC / Mtns SW Va
Posts: 4,789
Likes: 3,064
Liked 9,875 Times in 1,986 Posts
|
|
which 1917 to chop - before pics
I am wanting a chopped 1917 and can't decide which to chop. All function well, excellent bores and chambers.
1) Brazilian 1937 good blue finish, a couple light scratches and one good ding on the top strap. Cataling grips. Much better than most Brazilians.
2) Original and correct 1917 #122xxx. Some deep pitting on outside of bbl, lots of scattered light rust & pitting. Correct but un-number grips. Maybe 70% blueing.
3) A very well done reblued 1917 (looks factory but not marked as such), some of the insp marks are polished light or gone. Correct but non matching grips. Sideplate matches up to frame like factory gun, great colors on hammer & trigger, all numbers match except grips. really nice looking gun.
Which would you chop. I'm leaning toward the Brazilian.
thanks for your comments
Charlie
Last edited by crsides; 05-20-2017 at 12:09 PM.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-18-2017, 02:29 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Home of the Alamo
Posts: 5,838
Likes: 16,525
Liked 15,555 Times in 3,100 Posts
|
|
I'd say the Brazilian.
Do be sure to post photos of the project progress....you know how we all love photos
__________________
On the Oak Savannah
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-18-2017, 05:09 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AL Wiregrass
Posts: 7,224
Likes: 34,838
Liked 10,790 Times in 3,676 Posts
|
|
Charlie, WAIT! I have a nickeled 1917 I'll trade you for one of yours. We could do it in Charlotte.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
|
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-18-2017, 05:28 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,835
Likes: 5,161
Liked 5,242 Times in 2,483 Posts
|
|
If the bluing on the 1937 is original then I'd chop #2. If you owned three houses, two had good paint coverage and the third had bare wood that was starting to dry rot which would you change boards on and paint?
Admittedly I'm not the best collector and am not impressed by a gun's former government ownership.
The best alternative would be to wait for a 1917 that was already sporterized to come up for sale. We used to use sporterized to describe hunting rifles made out of surplus bolt actions. Best value in them was found by buying ones prior owners paid for most of the work on. Better collectors will speak well of you if you go this route.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-18-2017, 08:32 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 805
Likes: 3,267
Liked 662 Times in 305 Posts
|
|
I'd do #3. If that Brazilian is nicer than most, that's worth saving, and add to that the fact that it has military pedigree. If #2 is original, with that number it probably saw duty during WWI. To me, that carries value.
If #3 is already refinished, then you won't be hurting it much- might even get away with a chop job and cold blue the muzzle?
I definitely vote for Wiregrassguy's idea.
How short are you going with the barrel?
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-18-2017, 09:22 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,947
Likes: 38
Liked 821 Times in 490 Posts
|
|
Yeah, I'd talk to Wiregrassguy, too. The nickeled gun is a far better candidate for a custom. And it sounds like a very good trade option.
Larry
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-18-2017, 09:34 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,898
Likes: 3,296
Liked 4,963 Times in 1,951 Posts
|
|
+1 on wiregrassguy's deal.
Although I'm not a nickel fan, all things being equal, I'd rather swap as to chop.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-18-2017, 10:52 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 9,594
Likes: 3,710
Liked 8,949 Times in 3,556 Posts
|
|
I agree with deyomatic. Nice Brazilians are few and far between and are beginning to have a cult following.
#2 sounds like a decent gun so why mess it up.
#3 has been refinished so any barrel change or refinish is not going to hurt its value.
I vote for #3 and obviously we will need photos from start to finish. We just love gun porn.
__________________
James Redfield
LM #497
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-19-2017, 09:00 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 12,853
Liked 39,460 Times in 10,039 Posts
|
|
I would vote for #3 or the nickel gun trade.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-19-2017, 09:34 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,748
Likes: 1,642
Liked 9,152 Times in 3,380 Posts
|
|
Of those you have,,#3 would be my choice
,,,anything original (especially from WW1) is worth leaving that way IMO even if it's less than pristine.
The trade for an already nickel plated 17 sounds like a possibility also for a project gun.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-19-2017, 02:05 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,835
Likes: 5,161
Liked 5,242 Times in 2,483 Posts
|
|
If portions of the completed project would have to be refinished starting with a nickeled 1917 would add complications and cost. A couple of local men who do old fashioned bluing charge very little to put parts or guns that they do no other work on in with their own jobs. Nickeling would have to done by a bigger shop that advertises nationally. The shipping alone would cost more than local bluing. Also there is no nickel equivalent to the various touch up cold blue products.
My 4" 1917 has a J frame adjustable sight and a silver soldered Shorty rifle ramp with a Sour Dough front blade. Those are relatively easy installations. By the way, good collectors, please do not start heating the tar and plucking the chickens. Its adjustable sight was installed at least two owners prior to me and I bought it in 1975. I'm only responsible for its shorter barrel.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-19-2017, 11:02 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spokantucky
Posts: 4,128
Likes: 10,411
Liked 6,940 Times in 2,352 Posts
|
|
I'm with you, once the thing has been molested its free game. I've seen things that were painstakingly returned to their former glory and although worthy of great admiration are still after all "restored". I used to have a neighbor that kept a very nice '68 Plymouth Sport Fury in his single car garage, he had sheets over the back window deck, interior, a car cover. I asked him why he only took it out and drove it once a year and only when conditions were absolutely perfect, he said "I don't want to turn it into a used car."
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-19-2017, 11:23 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 104,950
Liked 22,296 Times in 4,529 Posts
|
|
Well, it's up to you, but I sure hope that we get to see pictures of whichever option you pursue. I have a 2nd model .44 HE that I want to convert one day, but I am looking for a spare barrel, maybe one that has already been cut, so that I could always reverse the process.
Best Regards, Les
__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-20-2017, 12:50 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 19
Likes: 1
Liked 159 Times in 13 Posts
|
|
I feel like #3 should be the obvious answer here...
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-20-2017, 10:21 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 2,556
Likes: 882
Liked 1,719 Times in 549 Posts
|
|
I've been looking for a"beater" 1917 or Brazilian 1937 for a while now but the prices I see them selling for is making me rethink the whole idea. Like the OP I want to "chop" it, in my case to 3.5", and get a better but not obnoxious front sight.
I see 1917s that aren't all that clean with asking prices upwards of $1000. Most Brazilians for sale on the internet are going for $500+. Those prices are too high to then add the cost of cutting the barrel, creating a more user friendly front sight and then re-bluing the whole thing. Not to mention there can always be action/tuning work that needs to be done.
I remember being offered a 1917 for $25 over the counter at a gun shop I frequented back in the late 1970s. Good grief, I'm getting old! (LOL)
Which ever gun he (OP) finally chooses I hope he will keep us abreast of his project's progress.
Dave
__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-20-2017, 12:16 PM
|
US Veteran SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: upstate SC / Mtns SW Va
Posts: 4,789
Likes: 3,064
Liked 9,875 Times in 1,986 Posts
|
|
|
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-20-2017, 01:48 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,835
Likes: 5,161
Liked 5,242 Times in 2,483 Posts
|
|
Warning: I have learned the hard way to not use my best shooting guns as the basis for custom guns. There is too much of a chance that the gunsmith's work will be a disappointment.
That would also apply to your best looking guns like #3. She's stunningly beautiful but you want to send her to the plastic surgeon in the hopes she might come out more to your taste?
Last edited by k22fan; 05-20-2017 at 03:51 PM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-20-2017, 05:13 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 9,594
Likes: 3,710
Liked 8,949 Times in 3,556 Posts
|
|
Now that I have seen the guns I think that I will vote for option number 4.
Don't touch any of them..
__________________
James Redfield
LM #497
|
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-20-2017, 05:57 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 13,524
Likes: 1,184
Liked 18,473 Times in 7,310 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by k22fan
If portions of the completed project would have to be refinished starting with a nickeled 1917 would add complications and cost. A couple of local men who do old fashioned bluing charge very little to put parts or guns that they do no other work on in with their own jobs. Nickeling would have to done by a bigger shop that advertises nationally. The shipping alone would cost more than local bluing. Also there is no nickel equivalent to the various touch up cold blue products.
My 4" 1917 has a J frame adjustable sight and a silver soldered Shorty rifle ramp with a Sour Dough front blade. Those are relatively easy installations. By the way, good collectors, please do not start heating the tar and plucking the chickens. Its adjustable sight was installed at least two owners prior to me and I bought it in 1975. I'm only responsible for its shorter barrel.
|
Dude, we need to see some PICTURES so we can see the modifications and judge them for ourselves
It sure sounds intriguing...
And to the OP, I'd choose option 4 as well - find one that is already refinished but UGLY. Your #3 may be refinished, but as you have said, it was very well done and is too pretty for plastic surgery IMO.
Last edited by BC38; 05-20-2017 at 06:04 PM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-20-2017, 07:34 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,947
Likes: 38
Liked 821 Times in 490 Posts
|
|
So...stripping the nickel from a chopper is not a good option? I'm surprised not to see more encouragement for the swap-and-chop.
Larry
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-20-2017, 08:35 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 777
Likes: 269
Liked 2,735 Times in 508 Posts
|
|
I wouldn't chop any of those. I'd wait for a basket case.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-21-2017, 07:58 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 805
Likes: 3,267
Liked 662 Times in 305 Posts
|
|
I stand by my original thoughts... SWAP and CHOP. Those are all much nicer than I thought...nicer than my full sized 1917 that never saw service in WWI.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-22-2017, 12:11 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Near Gettysburg
Posts: 9,268
Likes: 58,649
Liked 21,522 Times in 6,945 Posts
|
|
Now that the pictures how been produced I have to agree that none of them should be used for a project. I think with a little searching you can come up with the previous project gun that has no collector value. That's how I came across the gun in the pictures. The only work I did was to add the Tyler T-grip, otherwise it is just as I bought it. I like it just as it is, but something similar might be what you are looking for to work on.
|
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-22-2017, 09:18 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Fond du Lac WI
Posts: 893
Likes: 21
Liked 1,348 Times in 283 Posts
|
|
Chop ALL 3!
Have a 2-1/2", 3" & 3-1/2"
Accessorize them all differently and have one blue - one nickel and one pinto.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-22-2017, 09:34 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 1,110
Liked 2,897 Times in 391 Posts
|
|
__________________
SWCA1517 SWHF256
Rangers LTW!
|
The Following 12 Users Like Post:
|
A10, DevilDog72, digi-shots, ExcitableBoy, Jebus35745, Kinman, les.b, Muley Gil, Russell Cottle, vonn, Wiregrassguy, Wprovence |
05-22-2017, 10:37 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DUNNELLON, FLORIDA USA
Posts: 11,113
Likes: 1,691
Liked 16,318 Times in 4,239 Posts
|
|
If you must, Chop #2
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-22-2017, 04:11 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK area
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 1,461
Liked 7,056 Times in 1,581 Posts
|
|
There are plenty of 1917s out there that have already been chopped. Wait and find one of those.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-22-2017, 04:40 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spokantucky
Posts: 4,128
Likes: 10,411
Liked 6,940 Times in 2,352 Posts
|
|
I'm with Jimmy, although I don't have the advantage of gun in hand. But from I can see in pics I'd mess with #2 before I'd take #3 any further. I just lucked into the Brazilian which was very nicely refinished but had suffered some serious rustification and had serious pitting under the stocks. I considered it a prime candidate for messing around with. I talked with a gunsmith friend of mine about what I'd like done and actually paid him more to shorten the barrel to 4", install a Baughman style front sight, open up the forcing cone and square away any wobble in the yoke, adjust end play and reblue the barrel
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-22-2017, 06:20 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mount Carmel, TN USA
Posts: 3,171
Likes: 1,626
Liked 3,178 Times in 933 Posts
|
|
Here's a .45 I built on a .455 frame and modern barrel/cylinder. I've got one on the bench now in .44 Special with modern 3" barrel.
__________________
Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292
|
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-23-2017, 11:55 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 2,556
Likes: 882
Liked 1,719 Times in 549 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom K
There are plenty of 1917s out there that have already been chopped. Wait and find one of those.
|
I'd sure like to know where all these "chopped" 1917s are hiding. I've seen one in over a year of looking and it had a .455" barrel which would have .451" Ball rounds bounce around (or more likely skew one way or the other) on their way to the muzzle. I passed since I'm not set up (right dies & expanders) to load .454" cast bullets.
Dave
__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-23-2017, 11:57 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AL Wiregrass
Posts: 7,224
Likes: 34,838
Liked 10,790 Times in 3,676 Posts
|
|
I've been trying to find a 1917 barrel for a year or so.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
|
05-25-2017, 07:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: IL
Posts: 1,706
Likes: 693
Liked 2,845 Times in 579 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy
I've been trying to find a 1917 barrel for a year or so.
|
One just sold on eBay. They come up fairly frequently for $150 or so.
|
05-25-2017, 08:43 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 976
Likes: 1,659
Liked 1,759 Times in 502 Posts
|
|
I like those catalin grips!
|
05-25-2017, 09:14 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 805
Likes: 3,267
Liked 662 Times in 305 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by younggun22
One just sold on eBay. They come up fairly frequently for $150 or so.
|
Tell us how we find them, especially at that price.
|
06-03-2017, 12:26 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6,628
Likes: 3,725
Liked 7,231 Times in 3,014 Posts
|
|
The Brazilian would never be chopped in my opinion. If you just have to
chop make it #3.
|
06-03-2017, 04:51 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sunny Central Florida
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 334
Liked 993 Times in 378 Posts
|
|
Maybe it's just me, but the further down I go in this thread the uglier the guns get.
__________________
NRA Benefactor
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 03:26 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Tennessee and Alabama
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 2,758
Liked 1,613 Times in 661 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by deyomatic
I'd do #3. If that Brazilian is nicer than most, that's worth saving, and add to that the fact that it has military pedigree. If #2 is original, with that number it probably saw duty during WWI. To me, that carries value.
If #3 is already refinished, then you won't be hurting it much- might even get away with a chop job and cold blue the muzzle?
I definitely vote for Wiregrassguy's idea.
How short are you going with the barrel?
|
+1 across the board
__________________
Grumpy Old Man With a Gun
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|