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Old 05-19-2017, 05:47 PM
Tom Fisher Tom Fisher is offline
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Default 3rd Model Hand ejector, Target 44 Special

Hello Forum!

I am new to the forum, and I have obtained a Pre-war Hand Ejector in 44 S&W SPL., that I have not seen before.

The serial # is: 18235. There is a "STAR" stamp before the number.

There is a lanyard hole in the frame after the serial Number, but no lanyard on the revolver.

It has the rounded pre-war adjustable "micro" sight rear, with a Patridge Blade on a very high boss up front.

The top of the barrel is stamped with: "Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass, USA Patented Dec.17.1901.Feb.6.1906.Sep 14 1909

There is a small logo on the left side, nothing on the side plate.

It is a five screw gun, in about 90% PLUS NRA without box or papers.

Any info would be appreciated. I took this piece in a trade, not knowing what it was, as I usually collect post war, numbered hand ejectors. It looked odd to me until I dug a bit on the web and found out that Wolf and Klar in Texas had something to do with this piece.

Here are a few photos! Thanks in advance! Tom
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3rd Model Hand ejector, Target   44 Special-smith-2-jpg   3rd Model Hand ejector, Target   44 Special-smith-3-jpg   3rd Model Hand ejector, Target   44 Special-smith-picture-jpg   3rd Model Hand ejector, Target   44 Special-barrel-shroud-jpg   3rd Model Hand ejector, Target   44 Special-smith-rework-date-jpg  


Last edited by Tom Fisher; 05-19-2017 at 07:21 PM. Reason: more pics
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:08 PM
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The Micro sight is an add-on to what appears to be an original target sighted gun. I see the remnant of the factory rear sight, so I'm curious as to what's under the Micro.

Also, the stocks are much later than the gun...

*Edit:* The serial number you give is much too low for a 3rd model. What serial number is in the ejector rod shroud? The star on the butt indicates factory service of some sort, but it's doubtful they would have added the Micro sight.

Mark
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:18 PM
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At that SN, it would be in the .44 Second Model N-frame period (ca. 1922), and shouldn't have the barrel shroud for the extractor rod. And of course the rear sight is an add-on. Maybe a First Model barrel transplant? Almost certainly refinished, and the grips are probably from the 40s or early 50s.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:23 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

You do indeed have what appears to be a Model of 1926 (3rd Model) .44 HE. But the low serial number would normally be associated with an N frame from late 1921 2nd Model.

It's possibly a 2nd Model with a 3rd Model shrouded barrel.

It appears to be a factory target model, however aftermarket Micro Site front and rear sights have been installed on top of the factory sights.

It also has early post war high shoulder Magna stocks, valuable in their own right.

We're going to need some more info:

1. Is there a serial number in the barrel shroud and does it match the Butt #?

2. If you can remove the rear sight and the tang of the factory rear sight, there should be a serial # on the bottom of the sight tang that will verify if it is an original factory target model:

Photo by Mike Priwer

3. The star indicates it went back to the factory for a rework/refinish. There will be a date on the lower left side of the grip frame for when it was done. Do you see a date?
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:04 PM
Tom Fisher Tom Fisher is offline
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Thank you gentlemen. The serial number under the ejector shroud matches the above mentioned number on the butt, as does the number on the rear of the cylinder, all 18235. the date on the frame is 12.50.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:19 PM
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Welcome to the Forum.

It sounds like this revolver received a 3rd model barrel when it went back to S&W in December 1950.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
Welcome to the Forum.

It sounds like this revolver received a 3rd model barrel when it went back to S&W in December 1950.
I agree. The factory protocol was to serial number a replacement barrel or parts to match the frame.

The Micro sight was most likely installed after the factory rework since it's obviously not re-blued.

I'd letter that gun. That's the second one on the forum that appears to be a 2nd Model with 3rd Model barrel replacement. Then check with SWHF to see if they can dredge up any info about the factory rework.

If it letters as a factory target, I'd restore the sights to factory.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:53 PM
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"If it letters as a factory target, I'd restore the sights to factory."

Looks to me that whoever installed that Micro rear sight removed a LOT of metal from the top strap.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:28 PM
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"The top of the barrel is stamped with: "Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass, USA Patented Dec.17.1901.Feb.6.1906.Sep 14 1909""

Would that be correct for a Third Model replacement barrel?
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:53 PM
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As one that has recently acquired a nice 2nd model .44 HE I encourage you to take it out and shoot it, mine is a terrific shooter. I was trying some different bullet weights today, I won't be letting this puppy go anytime soon.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:46 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
"If it letters as a factory target, I'd restore the sights to factory."

Looks to me that whoever installed that Micro rear sight removed a LOT of metal from the top strap.
That's usually the case but since it's mounted over the top of the original sight, the top strap may not be cut.

But if it has been cut, I've fixed that before with a little tig welding. It'll require a re-blue but it's already been refinished once anyway.

At the same time I would replace the rebound slide pin with a domed pin, original pre war style. It was likely polished flat even by the factory because they refinished in 1950 and that was the protocol after the war.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:22 AM
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The last patent date on a 3rd Model Target is Dec. 29, 14---as it is on a 2nd----and it's 06 on a 1st. So---------------------??

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
"The top of the barrel is stamped with: "Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass, USA Patented Dec.17.1901.Feb.6.1906.Sep 14 1909""

Would that be correct for a Third Model replacement barrel?
Yes, but depends on when it was replaced. In 12/50 when that barrel was likely replaced at the factory, a pre war barrel with patent dates was still available.

I have a 1940 vintage 3rd model original 4" (according to letter) with no patent dates. It also has a star on the butt and a rework date of 8/53.

However the barrel and the frame are also both stamped with an 'O' for the Outside Repair Department at Smith & Wesson which preceded the S for Service Dept. when the Outside Repair Department was moved into the plant.

Therefore my barrel was replaced at the factory with a post war 4 barrel which has no patent dates and is numbered to the frame.

The OPs barrel will most likely have an O stamped in the shroud following the serial #, and on the left side of the grip frame at the heel under the stock.
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Old 05-26-2017, 05:04 PM
Tom Fisher Tom Fisher is offline
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Thank-you all for your help! I have sent off for a letter on this H.E. and look forward to Roy's comments! TOM
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Old 05-26-2017, 05:10 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Tom,

Did you look for the 'O' on barrel and left side of grip frame?
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Old 05-30-2017, 01:43 PM
Tom Fisher Tom Fisher is offline
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Jim,

There is a "diamond" stamp after the SN on the barrel shroud, but nothing stamped on the grip frame other than the 12.50 rework date.
Thank you again for all of your help. Tom
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:33 PM
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Welcome to the FORUM! it is interesting to say the least. Should be a good shooter. Give us a range report when you get around to it! Bob
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:52 PM
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Welcome!
You got a very interesting gun!
Does the Micro sight mount directly on top of the factory sight-
Or was there some machining done?
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:45 PM
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Hi
My suggestion is keep it is a shooter to much has been done to the gun
to make it a collector. The top of the frame has been cut to mount the Mirco sight. look at the picture of the top of the gun.
Jim Fisher
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:07 PM
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Here's my 1926.
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fisher View Post
Jim,

There is a "diamond" stamp after the SN on the barrel shroud, but nothing stamped on the grip frame other than the 12.50 rework date.
Thank you again for all of your help. Tom
Hi Tom,

DIAMONDS: were stamped on factory replaced parts or heel of grip frame on left side for refinish followed by letters, sometimes in a rectangle or diamond, with an R (for refinish) or S (for standard blue finish) followed by B (blue), or N (nickel), on 'heel' of left side of grip frame. On barrels with extractor shrouds, these stamps will occasionally also be found on the back end of the shroud and only be seen with cylinder swung out.

A Diamond can also mean:

Parts modified by the factory on a new gun like a shortened barrel BEFORE originally being shipped can have a diamond stamp sometimes with an S inside indicating service dept. work, but w/o a rework date like guns returned to the factory!

It can mean a gun that had service work done, just like the Star was used.
"Parts on Hand"- i.e. replacement parts sold out the door.

There might also be letters in diamonds like <S> (silver), <G> (gold), or a P (plated) with a circle.

NOTE: These are just rules of thumb, not at all meant to be an all inclusive list, and often lack consistency (especially size of digits), like anything from S&W.
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Old 06-09-2017, 01:21 PM
Tom Fisher Tom Fisher is offline
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I received my letter back from the Smith and Wesson Historical, and I think the Micro Sights were factory installed when the revolver was factory rebuilt. Thoughts? Thanks, Tom
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Old 06-09-2017, 02:12 PM
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Since that is what the OFFICIAL letter says I don't see how there could ever be any doubt that is absolutely correct . Good for you, no shoot the hell out of it and enjoy it .

Eddie
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Old 06-09-2017, 04:22 PM
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I don't think the Micro sights were installed by the factory. What they did do was install S&W target sights. Then, the Micro sights were installed later. What S&W typically did when a gun was ordered with an aftermarket sight, such as King, was send the gun to the sight company for the work. I know they had that arrangement with King. Don't know about Micro. But, IMO, S&W would have never installed a rear sight blade if the gun was supposed to get an aftermarket sight.
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Old 06-09-2017, 04:38 PM
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I also have a problem believing that S&W machined the top of that gun through the existing factory sights and then installed Micro Sights.
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Southgate View Post
Since that is what the OFFICIAL letter says I don't see how there could ever be any doubt that is absolutely correct . Good for you, no shoot the hell out of it and enjoy it .

Eddie
Well the letter doesn't exactly indicate that; just that the refinish was done by the factory.

Getting the work order from the SWHF is must at this point.
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Old 06-09-2017, 08:45 PM
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I highly doubt that S&W would install micro sights on top of their target sights at the factory. Refinish and barrel change? Sure.


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