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05-22-2017, 10:01 PM
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Nickel 1949 S&W Military & Police w/ 2 inch barrel
I placed an ad in the WTB section of this forum looking for a S&W Pre-Model 10 in nickel or blued finish. I thought I would end up buying a shooter grade gun. My Grail gun is a Pre-Model 10 in nickel in mint condition. I had about 5 people respond to my ad. Some offered shooter grade guns and some offered NIB guns.
Larry Miller (ldogmiller) offered me an unfired nickel gun and showed me a couple of pictures. I was intrigued and asked for more pictures. We communicated by email and telephone many times. Larry took 154 pictures! Some were basically the same picture, but he showed the gun from every angle imaginable! I was blown away to say the least. I wasn't planning on spending that much for a gun (since I thought I would be buying a shooter), but after seeing the pictures, I knew I wanted this gun. I told him I wanted to buy his gun and I think we struck a fair deal for both of us. I am going through IV Chemo treatments for cancer and the day after we struck the deal, I had to go to the emergency room for blood clots in my leg, a side effect of my chemo. I spent a few days in the hospital, but was able to communicate with Larry through email. I explained the situation to him and said it would be a while before I could complete the deal. He was very understanding and said the gun would be there whenever I was able to complete the deal! I was actually able to do the deal quicker than I thought I would be able to do.
When I went to my FFL, I was blown away by the gun! It is a 1949 gun and looks brand new. My FFL was blown away too. He said he and his staff looked it over figuring it had to be a refinish. They could see no signs of that, which I already knew.
Not only did Larry provide me with a Grail gun of mine, but I truly think I gained a new friend! I know this is extremely long, but I just wanted to share my experience with the forum. Without further ado, here are some pictures that ldogmiller graciously said I could copy (his pictures are much better than anything I could take):
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Last edited by boykinlp; 07-16-2017 at 08:51 PM.
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05-22-2017, 10:22 PM
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What a beautiful revolver, thanks for sharing!
I wish you much luck with her!
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05-22-2017, 10:24 PM
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I'd be afraid to shoot that one - much less put it in a holster. 
Mark
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05-22-2017, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgun610
I'd be afraid to shoot that one - much less put it in a holster.
Mark |
You are right! I will never shoot it or put it in the holster! Just wanted to show a holster I had that it would fit in.
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Miss My Buddy crsides!!
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05-22-2017, 11:17 PM
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Don't you just love the Pre 10 snubbies? That one is gorgeous! Congrats.
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Randy
Provenance nerd
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05-22-2017, 11:31 PM
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Stunning! I hope one day to find one just as nice! I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed the chance to view it. Thanks for sharing with us. Kyle
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05-23-2017, 07:50 AM
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Amazing! You are now a curator. Handle with care.
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05-23-2017, 08:44 AM
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Oh mercy! I wish I had aged that well! I'm not certain that I could refrain from shooting it though. I have a couple of guns that I "haven't" fired, yet, but it's not because they are pristine, it's because I haven't found time. I would love to own one like that some day, but I know me.
Congratulations!
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05-23-2017, 09:23 AM
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Enjoy that beauty.
Some people wind up having sellers remorse.
I think Larry will have sellers pride in helping you.
He is a good guy.
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Paul
S&WCA #2726
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05-23-2017, 10:12 AM
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Life is too short NOT to shoot nice guns. If you don't shoot it, maybe the next owner will. Food for thought.
Congrats and thanks for sharing.
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05-23-2017, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherby
Enjoy that beauty.
Some people wind up having sellers remorse.
I think Larry will have sellers pride in helping you.
He is a good guy.
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I could not agree more! It was really enjoyable dealing with Larry and getting to know him.
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05-23-2017, 11:06 AM
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Time capsule - wow!
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05-23-2017, 12:34 PM
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Congrats!!! That is a beauty  I cannot recall seeing a nickel pre-10 snub that nice. Thanks for sharing and all the best with your IV'd "poison". That chemo is tough. You're in our thoughts and prayers.
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Engraved S&W fan
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05-23-2017, 12:35 PM
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Mine is in the C127000 range, has it's original stocks, and I'm glad it's not in the 98%+ range. It's fun to shoot, the action is among the best of any of my S&W's and it's way more accurate than me. 
Mark
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05-23-2017, 12:45 PM
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You came up with a beauty which would be very hard to duplicate. Glad your search was so successful, and hope the results of your treatments is equally successful.
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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
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05-23-2017, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quinn
Don't you just love the Pre 10 snubbies? That one is gorgeous! Congrats.
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I see you are from San Antonio. The O. Ball holster in my post was made for someone in the San Antonio Police Department.
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Last edited by boykinlp; 07-16-2017 at 08:37 PM.
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05-23-2017, 07:51 PM
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Can somebody please tell me what this hole in the frame is for:
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Last edited by boykinlp; 07-16-2017 at 08:35 PM.
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05-23-2017, 08:04 PM
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Stunning indeed!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Pass it on.
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05-23-2017, 10:01 PM
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Wow! A pre 10 snubbie... one of my favorites!
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SWCA #1965, SWHF #245
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05-23-2017, 10:09 PM
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Great revolver!!! Nice to see the Oliver Ball holster as well!! When I first saw that holster, I thought it was probably for a Detective Special. Interesting that it goes with a K frame. Beautiful combination!!!
By the way, you will make it through your current medical situation. The first of June this year will be my five year anniversary of my cancer surgery (UPMC Pittsburgh...wonderful facility and medical personnel). After subsequent treatments, I am now marking 5 years cancer free.
Best Regards, Les
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Last edited by les.b; 05-23-2017 at 10:17 PM.
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05-23-2017, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les.b
Great revolver!!! Nice to see the Oliver Ball holster as well!! When I first saw that holster, I thought it was probably for a Detective Special. Interesting that it goes with a K frame. Beautiful combination!!!
By the way, you will make it through your current medical situation. The first of June this year will be my five year anniversary of my cancer surgery (UPMC Pittsburgh...wonderful facility and medical personnel). After subsequent treatments, I am now marking 5 years cancer free.
Best Regards, Les
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Les,
To be honest, I have not put this pre-10 in the holster. I think a Colt Detective Special would fit the O. Ball holster too. The guy I bought it from said it would fit both revolvers. I don't have one to try it out though. I kinda thought the k frame was slightly bigger than the DS.
Les,
You are right. It is for a Colt Detective Special only, my Pre-10 does not fit.  I am on the look out for a correct holster.
Congratulations on being cancer free for almost 5 years! I know I will get through my situation too. It is just trying at times!
Larry
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Last edited by boykinlp; 06-13-2017 at 08:21 PM.
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05-23-2017, 10:50 PM
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A beauty!
I have read on this site that the hole was used to hold the frame in a fixture while it was machined.
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05-23-2017, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinlp
Can somebody please tell me what this hole in the frame is for:
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I maybe wrong but I think I remember reading those holes were used to hold the frames in a jig during production.
Beautiful gun.
^^^He beat me to it.
Last edited by bamabiker; 05-23-2017 at 11:07 PM.
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05-23-2017, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinlp
Les,
To be honest, I have not put this pre-10 in the holster. I think a Colt Detective Special would fit the O. Ball holster too. The guy I bought it from said it would fit both revolvers. I don't have one to try it out though. I kinda thought the k frame was slightly bigger than the DS.
Congratulations on being cancer free for almost 5 years! I know I will get through my situation too. It is just trying at times!
Larry
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I prayed for comfort and peace and healing for you. I guess acquiring that gem will give some comfort. VERY VERY NICE!!!. And yes, a K frame is bigger than a DS. My DS will fit in my J frame holster but my Model 19's trigger guard will not fit in. The dimension from the top strap to the bottom of the trigger guard is definitely longer. I'm not sure how much, but it's not super duper close. Put it this way, the DS frame is closer to a j frame size than the K frame.
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05-24-2017, 12:02 AM
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Larry,
Boy, you did really well with that beauty. Not a hard choice to make. I am glad you ended up with the gun you really wanted.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
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GARY
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05-24-2017, 09:39 AM
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The hole in the base of the frame is a gig hole for the manufacturing process. Don't know exactly how it is used, guessing to hold in some kind of fixture while gun is assembled.
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SWCA1967 SWHF244
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05-24-2017, 09:50 AM
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That's a dandy. Congrats.
All the best with your treatments. I've got friends who came out on the other side without a hitch. I've been lucky (knock on my noggin'.)
Cheers,
Bob
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05-24-2017, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goatsnguns
Larry,
Boy, you did really well with that beauty. Not a hard choice to make. I am glad you ended up with the gun you really wanted.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
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Thanks, Gary! As you well know, I almost went in a different direction. 
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05-24-2017, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinlp
Can somebody please tell me what this hole in the frame is for:
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I had a guy on another forum to tell me to read the Pre-Model 10 info in the new 4th edition of the Standard Catalog Of Smith & Wesson. When I read it, it says "It also has a hole in the side of the frame for access to the lanyard ring lock pin." I realize my gun does not have a lanyard ring, but could this be the hole the book is talking about? Also, does somebody have a picture of their Pre-Model 10, that has a lanyard ring, with the grips removed so I can see the lock pin? Thanks.
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05-24-2017, 06:26 PM
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Cool revolver. Great outcome. Goes to show our Grail guns are out there. I love the hunt.
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05-26-2017, 11:53 AM
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You did good Larry. I want to be Ldogmiller's friend too! Man, what a treasure. It went to a good home. Good luck on your process back to good health.
Charlie
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05-26-2017, 12:33 PM
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That's a beautiful gun! You are lucky to have found a pre-10!
I think a nickeled Model 10 snubby also looks grand. This is a Model 10-5, shipped in December, 1977 according to Roy. I've kept it new in the box - never fired outside of the factory proof rounds.
John
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05-26-2017, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crsides
You did good Larry. I want to be Ldogmiller's friend too! Man, what a treasure. It went to a good home. Good luck on your process back to good health.
Charlie
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Ldogmiller is a great guy and a new friend! I am really enjoying the gun!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020
That's a beautiful gun! You are lucky to have found a pre-10!
I think a nickeled Model 10 snubby also looks grand. This is a Model 10-5, shipped in December, 1977 according to Roy. I've kept it new in the box - never fired outside of the factory proof rounds.
John
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Your 10-5 looks amazing! I really like the half round front sight on the Pre-Model 10! That is what hooked me. I think this gun is unfired too. I sent off for a letter today. I will be interested to see where it originally shipped. I would love to have a correct box for my gun. I may keep my eye out for one, even if it is not THE box.
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06-08-2017, 04:55 PM
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Roy Jinks is really fast these days! I sent in my Historical Letter Form on 5/26/17 and got the letter today. We were thinking the gun was a 1948 model, but we missed it by just a little bit, so I edited the title of this thread to reflect the new information.
The letter says:
"We have researched your Smith & Wesson .38 Military & Police Pre-Model 10, Five Screw Variation, caliber .38 S&W Special, revolver in company records which indicate that your handgun, with a butt serial number C44111 was shipped from our factory on January 27, 1949 and delivered to Ambrose Sporting Goods Co., 1325 South Main St., Memphis, TN. The records indicate that this revolver was shipped with a 2 inch barrel, nickel finish, and checkered walnut square grips. The shipment was for 6 units all in the same configuration and they were billed at the wholesale price of $39.91 each. The nickel finish is slightly rarer than the blue finish."
Just for giggles, I googled the Ambrose Sporting Goods Co., and it is apparently not in business anymore. It appears to be an empty lot in a rundown area of town. But, I did find this:
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Last edited by boykinlp; 07-16-2017 at 08:43 PM.
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06-09-2017, 12:12 AM
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Banned
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Dick Tracy's gun~~
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06-09-2017, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinlp
I had a guy on another forum to tell me to read the Pre-Model 10 info in the new 4th edition of the Standard Catalog Of Smith & Wesson. When I read it, it says "It also has a hole in the side of the frame for access to the lanyard ring lock pin." I realize my gun does not have a lanyard ring, but could this be the hole the book is talking about? Also, does somebody have a picture of their Pre-Model 10, that has a lanyard ring, with the grips removed so I can see the lock pin? Thanks.
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Nice gun, and hang in there with the medical treatments!
I don't have a photo handy, but the typical lanyard ring ("butt swivel") location is centered front to back on the bottom of the grip frame. The base of the ring goes up into the frame and a small cross pin secures it in place. This is quite a bit smaller than the larger hole pictured and more in the center of the grip frame.
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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
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06-09-2017, 06:57 AM
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To amplify on Alan's post, Here's a picture that shows a Victory model's lanyard ring and you can see the hole that it goes into, with the pin in place that serves both to hold it in place and provide a method for it to actually swivel on.
The victory is the same frame size as your revolver, and only predates it by a couple of years but lacks the large hole which was used for positioning in a jig.
Best Regards, Les
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06-09-2017, 09:56 AM
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Yeah, that's the ticket (as Jon Lovitz used to say).
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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
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06-09-2017, 10:24 AM
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Thanks for clearing up my question Alan and Les. The guy on the other forum who told me to look at the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson was wrong about the hole in my gun. I see the difference now. Thanks again!
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06-09-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog
Nice gun, and hang in there with the medical treatments!
I don't have a photo handy, but the typical lanyard ring ("butt swivel") location is centered front to back on the bottom of the grip frame. The base of the ring goes up into the frame and a small cross pin secures it in place. This is quite a bit smaller than the larger hole pictured and more in the center of the grip frame.
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A small detail, but the lanyard loop is 1/10" forward of center when installed by the factory.
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06-09-2017, 07:41 PM
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Here are my pre 10s. Not as nice as the op's. My nickel gun was so yellowed that the seller thought that it might be gold washed. I gently went over it with Mothers and the beauty came through. The Fitzed gun is just a parts gun but turned out nice. Can't beat the action on it though.
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06-09-2017, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoreed11754
Here are my pre 10s. Not as nice as the op's. My nickel gun was so yellowed that the seller thought that it might be gold washed. I gently went over it with Mothers and the beauty came through. The Fitzed gun is just a parts gun but turned out nice. Can't beat the action on it though.
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Looks like you got a winner to me! You did a terrific job on shining it up! If you don't mind, what is the serial number range?
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06-10-2017, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgun610
Mine is in the C127000 range, has it's original stocks, and I'm glad it's not in the 98%+ range. It's fun to shoot, the action is among the best of any of my S&W's and it's way more accurate than me.
Mark |
I've got a well used Pre-10 M&P (C 26710) with a 2 inch barrel. I love the old S&W M&P's (got three of them).
The OP's gun is the nicest nickel 2 inch gun I've seen. She's a beauty! Congrats on the find.
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06-10-2017, 08:29 AM
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The only thing that would make me drool more than I am right now would be if it were a round butt! Just love those!
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06-10-2017, 09:22 AM
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May your treatment be successful. Enjoy your absolutely gorgeous revolver.
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06-10-2017, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H P Bushrod
I've got a well used Pre-10 M&P (C 26710) with a 2 inch barrel. I love the old S&W M&P's (got three of them).
The OP's gun is the nicest nickel 2 inch gun I've seen. She's a beauty! Congrats on the find.
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Show us some pictures of your Pre-10 M&P 2 incher. Is it nickel too?
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06-10-2017, 11:44 PM
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I was just looking at your serial number tonight...looks like C 44XXX. My pre-10 M&P is C 54XXX, and Roy says that it shipped in April of 1949. It is just the opposite of yours, though, a 2", but round butt, and it's been carried a lot, although it doesn't seem like it was shot much. Just thinking though, that yours might be even earlier than it seems, although S&W did not always ship in sequential order.
Sorry, I just reread your post and you have already received your letter and it shows January 1949. Sorry, I jump around on these threads so much that it's inevitable that I'll get mixed up eventually!!
Interesting also that although yours is several months older than mine, that it has the Magna stocks, and mine still has the "service" style stocks. Mine also number to the gun.
Best Regards, Les
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Last edited by les.b; 06-10-2017 at 11:56 PM.
Reason: Clarify...add photos
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06-10-2017, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les.b
My pre-10 M&P is C 54XXX, and Roy says that it shipped in April of 1949. It is just the opposite of yours, though, a 2", but round butt, and it's been carried a lot, although it doesn't seem like it was shot much.
Best Regards, Les
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I would love to see some pictures of your gun!
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06-11-2017, 12:17 AM
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Hello to my new friend, and my Wife and I will pray for you tonight. But as to that snubby, Son, I have never seen a nicer one! Those were the days...
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06-11-2017, 09:00 AM
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A fantastic nickel snubby! I'n very envious of that beauty. It would fit very nicely with my 1948 C48xxx square butt. My brother has gone through the chemo stages last summer and despite a few setbacks with infections, he has regained his strength and is now back in his golf league and enjoying life once again. You're in our prayers!
Bill
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