|
|
06-07-2017, 09:35 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,637
Liked 3,801 Times in 880 Posts
|
|
A Pre M10 Found a New Home
Ok, I really wasn't looking, it sort of found me. Two weeks ago I was on one of my Gunbroker saved searches vendors sites, just looking. This is a vendor that deals with police trade ins and confiscations, I have bought from them a half dozen times or so.
This time they had a few S&W revolvers, one of them was a 4" nickel pre M10, from the serial number, front sight, lack of the upper frame screw, I put it's production year at 1955, it had worn diamond stocks. Starting price was $179, still had five days to go in the auction. I had just bought two 5" nickel M10-5's so was not really looking to buy this one but I wanted to see what it would bring. The seller usually only takes two pictures, not very good ones either, their descriptions are pretty good. I put a watch on it so that I would be notified before the auction ended so I could check on it.
The auction ended at 8:00 am Eastern on a Wednesday, I had forgotten about it until I checked my emails after I got to work that Wednesday and saw the auction ending notice. I logged on with 20 minutes left in the auction and the opening price was still $179, there were no bids. Well I couldn't bear to see this old trooper not have a home so I placed my bid and waited, no other bidders and it was mine at $179.
I picked it up today and it is a fine old pre M10, looks like it has a lot of years left. The stocks are worn but they do number to the gun. Carried a lot, shot very little, typical of police firearms. I will clean it up and see how it looks. Hard to beat a classic S&W for under two bills these days. I will just add this to my accumulation of Smith & Wesson's and call it a day. I do need to not spend so much time on Gunbroker, seems like I can usually find something on there that I need.
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
|
The Following 25 Users Like Post:
|
357magster, 992B, ABPOS, Absalom, alaskavett, bruce5781, bunkie12, charlie sherrill, codenamedave, D Brown, delta-419, Hunter Keith, Jim NNN, Kframerbluvr, ki5mc, kryten67, Lee Barner, montezumaz, nimbly, policerevolvercollector, R.J. in Phoenix, Russell Cottle, sigp220.45, VNK971, Wiregrassguy |
06-07-2017, 09:55 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwest Iowa
Posts: 10,867
Likes: 2,688
Liked 18,970 Times in 5,589 Posts
|
|
Don't you just hate it when that happens?
Great pick up.
__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 01:58 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 798
Likes: 1,218
Liked 490 Times in 276 Posts
|
|
Nice gun! And great price! Congrats.
But when did K frames go from 5 to 4 screw? Wasn't it '56?
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 03:27 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: East of Jefferson
Posts: 634
Likes: 667
Liked 1,159 Times in 387 Posts
|
|
Nice score. To think I thought I did good getting a re-finished non-runner for under $200 in a local sale. Once in a while you get lucky on GB, even with the fifteen minute rule, which I love.
__________________
TEAM DNF
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 07:13 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,637
Liked 3,801 Times in 880 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim NNN
Nice gun! And great price! Congrats.
But when did K frames go from 5 to 4 screw? Wasn't it '56?
|
Jim, you are probably correct! I knew that it was 55 or 56 and for some reason 55 stuck out. I will go back and see why I thought that. Either way is cool!
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 08:39 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwest Iowa
Posts: 10,867
Likes: 2,688
Liked 18,970 Times in 5,589 Posts
|
|
3rd edition of the SCS&W says about 1955 when the top sideplate screw was eliminated.
__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 09:05 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,637
Liked 3,801 Times in 880 Posts
|
|
[QUOTE=Targets Guy;139621848]3rd edition of the SCS&W says about 1955 when the top sideplate screw was eliminated.[/QUOTE
I saw that in the 4th Edition too along with the change to a ramp front sight in 1955 and the serial number seemed to be closer to 55 then 56, I suppose I can put it in line for a factory letter
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 09:25 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 258
Likes: 5
Liked 490 Times in 142 Posts
|
|
need???? but I know what you mean That's happened to be too. there's no cure for it
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 12:09 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,248
Likes: 11,903
Liked 20,594 Times in 8,582 Posts
|
|
Good catch!
• Eliminate upper side plate screw change order 12/13/55 the 4th screw on New I (~ #640980 on .32s) & New J frames; on 9/7/55 the 5th screw on K frames, and on 9/7/56 the 5th screw on N frames.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 02:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 798
Likes: 1,218
Liked 490 Times in 276 Posts
|
|
Oh, it was '56 for the N frames. Thanks for the correction, Hondo44 and Targets Guy.
I believe the OP got the best deal on a pre-model K frame that I've seen in years. Have fun.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 11:10 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,685
Likes: 2,473
Liked 5,898 Times in 1,224 Posts
|
|
Outstanding!!!
(If the seller is in Pennsylvania, I've bought from them too. Good folks!!)
Best,
Charles
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-08-2017, 11:17 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 21,216
Liked 7,138 Times in 1,995 Posts
|
|
That is one seriously nice looking gun. Congratulations Glashaus!
__________________
Dave Brown
SWCA #3279
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-09-2017, 05:58 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,637
Liked 3,801 Times in 880 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by policerevolvercollector
Outstanding!!!
(If the seller is in Pennsylvania, I've bought from them too. Good folks!!)
Best,
Charles
|
Thanks Charles!
The seller is in Alabama.
Regard,
Tom
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-09-2017, 05:15 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: East of Jefferson
Posts: 634
Likes: 667
Liked 1,159 Times in 387 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashaus
Thanks Charles!
The seller is in Alabama.
Regard,
Tom
|
I went and found the seller, planning to add them to my saved searches for the trade-ins & confiscated guns, but they refuse to ship to CA. Some dealers just don't like a few extra mouse clicks in order to sell to an eighth of the U.S. population.
I can't wait to move out of this state.
__________________
TEAM DNF
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-09-2017, 10:54 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,685
Likes: 2,473
Liked 5,898 Times in 1,224 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashaus
Thanks Charles!
The seller is in Alabama.
Regard,
Tom
|
OK. I have bought from those folks in Montgomery also!!!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 10:05 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,637
Liked 3,801 Times in 880 Posts
|
|
I was on GunBroker a few days ago and found a set of K frame diamond grips for a buy it now price of $49. They are a couple of years older then my pre M10 but in much better shape then the originals that are on it. They came in yesterday and I really like them! Big improvement!
Original grips
New grips
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
Last edited by Glashaus; 06-18-2017 at 11:28 AM.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 10:37 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 14,500
Likes: 5,121
Liked 19,049 Times in 6,879 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
Good catch!
• Eliminate upper side plate screw change order 12/13/55 the 4th screw on New I (~ #640980 on .32s) & New J frames; on 9/7/55 the 5th screw on K frames, and on 9/7/56 the 5th screw on N frames.
|
It is good for Jim to post these dates. But keep in mind there is usually a time lag between when management issues a change order and when production actually shifts to the new configuration. It is pretty uncommon for K frame four screw guns to show up that shipped in 1955; in fact I don't believe I have ever seen one that had a confirmed ship date before 1956. Roy once told me that the actual change is determined by the floor supervisor because older parts get used up before the change is implemented.
I'm much less knowledgeable about postwar I, J and N frames, so I can't speak to those on this issue.
This normal time lag is why, for example, we usually say 1958 for the appearance of model numbers. The change was ordered in 1957, but model numbers on guns don't show up with ship dates prior to 1958.
__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 10:46 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lake Martin, Alabama
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 2,193
Liked 3,245 Times in 830 Posts
|
|
I looked at this same revolver a couple of weeks ago at Gulf State Distributors while I was picking up a Model 28-2 I won.
The thing that threw me was there was not A Large N marked under the barrel. Now, I don't know whether S&W marked this particular gun this way or not. It was a nice solid revolver mechanically.
If it is an original nickel gun, you got a good deal even with the 10% sales tax.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 11:05 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sunny Central Florida
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 334
Liked 993 Times in 378 Posts
|
|
Isn't there someone on this forum that restores stocks? I've never seen their work, so I can't speak to quality issues or the max depth of deterioration that can be saved. Just throwing out as a suggestion for numbers matching stocks. I would think a 90% gun would look better with 90% stock restoration if the numbers match.
__________________
NRA Benefactor
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 11:27 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,637
Liked 3,801 Times in 880 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamarw
I looked at this same revolver a couple of weeks ago at Gulf State Distributors while I was picking up a Model 28-2 I won.
The thing that threw me was there was not A Large N marked under the barrel. Now, I don't know whether S&W marked this particular gun this way or not. It was a nice solid revolver mechanically.
If it is an original nickel gun, you got a good deal even with the 10% sales tax.
|
Even better, I am in Texas so no Alabama sales tax. I am pretty sure that it is factory nickel. It is a nice old pre M10. You did good on the 28-2 that you picked up, very solid S&W!
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
|
06-18-2017, 11:34 AM
|
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,996 Times in 8,452 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamarw
......
The thing that threw me was there was not A Large N marked under the barrel. Now, I don't know whether S&W marked this particular gun this way or not.....
|
We have discussed this issue here before, but I believe the underbarrel finish markings, both the B and the N (the N was always optional even pre-war anyways), were no longer in use after WW II.
Based on my (limited so far) observations, the B disappeared with the British Service model in 1940, likely because that was never produced in nickel, so there was no point in noting the finish. While I don't have the data to back this up, that might have been the end of barrel finish markings.
Last edited by Absalom; 06-18-2017 at 11:41 AM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 12:10 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lake Martin, Alabama
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 2,193
Liked 3,245 Times in 830 Posts
|
|
Here are pictures from my Model 10-5 of under the barrel, on the face of the cylinder and on the left side of the frame.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 12:28 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 14,500
Likes: 5,121
Liked 19,049 Times in 6,879 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
We have discussed this issue here before, but I believe the underbarrel finish markings, both the B and the N (the N was always optional even pre-war anyways), were no longer in use after WW II.
Based on my (limited so far) observations, the B disappeared with the British Service model in 1940, likely because that was never produced in nickel, so there was no point in noting the finish. While I don't have the data to back this up, that might have been the end of barrel finish markings.
|
Well, this isn't quite right.
Before about 1940, blued guns were marked with a B on the barrel flat. There was no marking to indicate nickel. The absence of a B indicated nickel.
After the war, the practice was essentially flipped. There was no B marking to indicate a blue finish. But nickel plated guns generally speaking started getting the N stamp. The N could show up in three places: barrel flat, rear face of the cylinder and the left side of the grip frame, at least sometimes in all three places.
When stainless guns were introduced in 1965, it was common to find an S on the left side of the grip frame. I don't know if this practice was universal, but the stainless guns I have from the 1970s all have this mark.
__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 01:14 PM
|
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,996 Times in 8,452 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
.....But nickel plated guns generally speaking started getting the N stamp. The N could show up in three places: barrel flat, rear face of the cylinder and the left side of the grip frame, at least sometimes in all three places.
When stainless guns were introduced in 1965, it was common to find an S on the left side of the grip frame. I don't know if this practice was universal, but the stainless guns I have from the 1970s all have this mark.
|
Well, one never stops learning. I haven't handled too many nickeled post-war guns. I knew about the grip frame N, but I certainly have not seen the large N on the barrel as in lamarw's photo above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
Well, this isn't quite right.
Before about 1940, blued guns were marked with a B on the barrel flat. There was no marking to indicate nickel. The absence of a B indicated nickel.
....
|
Well, that may not be quite right either, at least going by some other authorities here.
This is a quote from Jim (Hondo44) I saved sometime last year:
"'B' or 'N' stamp: ahead of pre war serial #s on the barrel flat (or in shroud), rear face of yoke, on rear face of cyl by itself, behind the extractor star, and by itself on right side grip frame on commercial guns (only on left side grip frame on post war models) indicates an original Blue finish or an original Nickel finish based upon the corresponding letter. The occasional absence (more prevalent after 1930) of either the 'B' or 'N' can also indicate that it left the factory nickeled. (Also not to be confused with a larger B behind the barrel serial # for the Bright blue optional finish in the post war era - early ‘50s when satin blue was standard.)
“I've seen nickel Triple Locks with N stamps. I've seen them without it, too. Pre-war nickel guns MAY have an N, or they may simply lack B's.” Regards, Lee Jarrett"
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 01:58 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 14,500
Likes: 5,121
Liked 19,049 Times in 6,879 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
that may not be quite right either, at least going by some other authorities here.
This is a quote from Jim (Hondo44) I saved sometime last year:
"'B' or 'N' stamp: ahead of pre war serial #s on the barrel flat (or in shroud), rear face of yoke, on rear face of cyl by itself, behind the extractor star, and by itself on right side grip frame on commercial guns (only on left side grip frame on post war models) indicates an original Blue finish or an original Nickel finish based upon the corresponding letter. The occasional absence (more prevalent after 1930) of either the 'B' or 'N' can also indicate that it left the factory nickeled. (Also not to be confused with a larger B behind the barrel serial # for the Bright blue optional finish in the post war era - early ‘50s when satin blue was standard.)
“I've seen nickel Triple Locks with N stamps. I've seen them without it, too. Pre-war nickel guns MAY have an N, or they may simply lack B's.” Regards, Lee Jarrett"
|
Sure. I remember those statements too. I certainly don't consider myself to be the ultimate authority and I highly respect both Jim and Lee.
What I will repeat is that I'm no authority at all on I or N frame guns. But I've looked at thousands of K frames (pre- and post- war) and I don't remember ever seeing an N on a prewar nickel gun's barrel flat. They all seem to simply lack the B. So, I can only speak from my own experience, which is not infallible. (And by the way, the 1930s is the decade of which I am the least knowledgeable when it comes to the K frames.)
Thanks for this exchange. It has been quite interesting.
__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 02:43 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lake Martin, Alabama
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 2,193
Liked 3,245 Times in 830 Posts
|
|
Glashaus, It certainly looked factory nickel when I examined it. I have acquired a number of S&W revolvers from GSD, and everyone of the earlier ones had matching serial numbered stocks.
You got a good solid revolver along with a good price on the revolver. Glad it found a good home.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 04:13 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,637
Liked 3,801 Times in 880 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamarw
Glashaus, It certainly looked factory nickel when I examined it. I have acquired a number of S&W revolvers from GSD, and everyone of the earlier ones had matching serial numbered stocks.
You got a good solid revolver along with a good price on the revolver. Glad it found a good home.
|
Thanks! I have gotten a few S&W's from GSD, mostly when I wasn't really looking! The best so far was a nickel 3" M13-3 that I got from them last Fall!
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
|
06-18-2017, 06:38 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alabama
Posts: 566
Likes: 384
Liked 621 Times in 203 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashaus
Thanks! I have gotten a few S&W's from GSD, mostly when I wasn't really looking! The best so far was a nickel 3" M13-3 that I got from them last Fall!
|
I would love to see a nickel 3" model 13
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 06:49 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 17,524
Likes: 89,686
Liked 24,876 Times in 8,518 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromedhearts
I would love to see a nickel 3" model 13
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
Check with Lee Jarrett. I believe he bought one from a fellow Forum member while at the S&WCA meeting.
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-19-2017, 07:27 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,637
Liked 3,801 Times in 880 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromedhearts
I would love to see a nickel 3" model 13
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
My M13-3 3" nickel. From the tag that was on it when I got it, I believe that this was either a trade in or a confiscation from Mecklenburg County NC.
Picked up a 3" M13-3 Nickel
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
Last edited by Glashaus; 06-19-2017 at 07:30 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-19-2017, 08:04 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,305
Likes: 14,958
Liked 2,549 Times in 1,145 Posts
|
|
Thank you Glashaus for sharing such a beautiful revolver!
And thank you also to all the others that shared their knowledge about this, and other S&W's, as this is the reason I enjoy coming here, and am able to learn something every time I do!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|