Going to look at a S&W U.S. Army Model 1917 in .45 caliber tomorrow.I know nothing about them! What markings should i be looking for? Were these stamped U.S.Army? I know it is going to be hard with no info or pics,but can someone tell me what the price range on one could be.The finish looks very thin and rough in one pic.Any help would be great.There is no price set from the seller as of yet.

A military issued 1917 will be stamped US ARMY MODEL of 1917 on the butt, read with the muzzle pointed up. The serial number will also be on the butt, below the lanyard loop. It will read No 123456, with 123 over 456 (SNs went from # 1 up into the 165K range). No S&W emblem on either side. UNITED STATES PROPERTY will stamped under the barrel. Smooth walnut service grips were standard.

Commercial 1917s will only have the SN on the butt and will have a small S&W emblem stamped on the left side.

Prices can go from $500 on up, depending on the finish.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I agree with Muley Gil. Based on your description and if it's original and not converted to 45 Colt or other parts changed/replaced, $500 is about right. More decent original finish and unmodified gun can go to $7-800. A 95% plus gun will go up from there, especially with a very low s/n.

Here's what to look for:

SERIAL # LOCATIONS: To confirm all parts are original, one can check for the 6 matching serial # locations for fixed sight pre war Hand Ejectors and all post war Hand Ejectors thru ~1956 and a few as much as 3 years later.
NOTE: Observing serial #s for accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, and an attitude that it is there!

1. Gun butt - or fore strap on I frames/single shots with grips that cover the butt

2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud

3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight

4. Extractor star - backside

5. Cylinder - rear face

6. Right stock only - on back; stamped, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material. (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)

1917 PRODUCTION SUMMARY:

Military 1917s are in the range #1 thru # 169959 with 163,635 revolvers completed and delivered by or in 1918, and approximately 7,300 revolvers were delivered partially completed and were not counted in the 163,635 figure. As usual with S&W, revolvers were not completed in order of their serial numbers and all numbers were not used. All were shipped to Springfield Armory.
Both S&W (7300 frames) and Colt were allowed to purchase M1917 revolvers left over when their rebuild contracts were terminated at the end of WWII.* (Pate, see below for full text.)

Most early WWI 1917s are marked "GHS" in a circle, (Gilbert H. Stewart), Gov’t inspector, left side frame up near the hammer serial number range 1-42000. There’s also a GHD Guy H. Drewry inspector from 1930-1957 (with various increasing ranks in front of his name), who was in charge of the Hartford Ordnance District and under whose authority and name, ordnance contractors stationed at the S&W factory inspected guns both for Lend-lease and for ASP (Army Supply Program) contracts.
Middle range guns are marked with a flaming bomb, beginning c. #42000 to April 1918.
Late war time produced guns are marked in various locations with an eagle head over an "S" followed by a number like S1, S2, S3, S4, S6, S9, S24, S27, S34, etc., from April 1918 to war’s end. These marks are inspector marks used on Military guns which are also marked "United States Property” on the underside of the barrel.

The butt of the gun will have a two line serial number (when over 3 digits) and U.S. Army Model 1917 in four lines as well as a lanyard ring (which is the earliest version; polished and case colored, not sandblasted and blued). “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” is roll stamped under the front end of the barrel.

Earliest have smooth, concave round top stocks and circular hammer grooves up to about #15,000. Although, many have been observed sporadically up to the #20,000 range. As with all things S&W, there is seldom a specific serial number cut off. Deletion of the stocks w/concave top and the hammer grooves were of the earliest changes.

Most 1917 military issue have round top straps and a U notch rear sight. Later built frames with early #s have been observed with flat top strap and square notch rear sight; example #113934. It is not known when this change was initiated. However, cumulative wisdom is that the flat-top strap with Sq notch rear sight revision came to the N-frame in the 1926/1927 time frame.

War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos nor even commercial models (nor did any hand ejectors following the war until ~ 1920).

ARSENAL REBUILD: If there’s an extra large stamped # up to 5 digits (sometimes with an R or S) in the yoke, yoke cut out, under the barrel, or all three places, it’s an arsenal # indicating an arsenal rebuilt gun. The R may be found on the frame left side as well. Examples: Tryig to identify 1917 Revolver & Please help identify my 1917 Hand Ejector .45


“WW I U.S. 1917 hammers and triggers are slightly different from later N frame parts.” Lee Jarrett.
And will work in triple locks.

Cylinder hold open detent:
In my experience military 1917s had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. The cyl hold open detent went away on all frames after WW II with the usual few exceptions that had frames/yokes made pre war. It's been reported that some 1917s do not have the detent as a war time expedient, but of the hundreds of 1917s I've seen all did or at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost. Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room.

Plunger shown here in bottom of yoke and has a spring underneath it:



S&W Assembly (factory work) #s: These multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the ‘yoke cut’ on frame opposite the yoke, and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and post war period to ~1958.

FEATURES:
5-1/2" in cal 45 ACP, but the barrel reads "S.&W. D.A. 45".
Shiny Blue like shown below.
Butt Swivel.
No logo on either side of frame.
Smooth walnut stocks, no medallions.



Pre ~ 40,000 s/n flaming bomb inspector stamp and Pre ~ 20,000 s/n
grooved hammer. later hammers are smooth:

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Even with a "thin" finish, $500 seems a little low. These revolvers are getting harder to find, in any condition, especially in good operating condition. I picked up an early 1918 model few years ago that was in VG-Exc condition for $695, but it came with later Magna stocks. I replaced those stocks with a nice set of period stocks (s/n very close to the revolver's s/n) that I bought from a Forum member for $135. It is an excellent shooter- smooth and very accurate- and I think mine is worth at least $1000. I believe that $600-700 would be a fair price in today's market if the revolver is mechanically sound and has original smooth walnut stocks; more if the finish cleans up nicely. If you can snag it for around $500 you did good!

I can't seem to find them for less than $800. Brazilians go cheaper, usually start around $500-$600.

Post back with results.

I looked at the 1917 yesterday and passed on it.It was all numbers matching except i could not find any numbers on the right grip stamped or penciled.The grips were smooth and looked correct.It was stamped u.s.army model 1917 on the butt and united states property under the barrel.The bore was fairly pitted at the chamber and the outside looked like someone sanded the entire gun down with sand paper.It sold for $375.00? Maybe i should have bought it,but i decided to pass.

$375 was all it is worth. Pitted barrel bore or chambers is too bad. But a sanded gun is awful. Too bad, but you did the right thing in passing.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I wouldn't clean up a rusty shovel with sandpaper, it is a constant source of irritation to me when I see the way some people treat a finished metallic surface...I don't care how rusty a firearm could ever get, sandpaper is about the last thing I would think of using to clean it up...I would soak it overnight in molassas and vinegar before I touched it with sandpaper.

My FFL emailed me he just got a S&W U.S. Army Model 1917 in. I was going over this Wednesday to pick up a 649 that came in...but think I'll be there Monday morning. Never know what it might be...

Yeah, my dad always said, "He who hesitates, misses out."

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I am having a hard time adjusting to the prices on 1917s and the Brazilian versions. Back in the mid to late 1970s I was offered a Brazilian, over the counter in a large gun shop for $25. That same gun seems to be selling for over $500 and more every day now.

But had I bought that gun way back then it would probably have been sold or traded years ago. Oh well. Getting old can be painful in a number of ways (LOL).

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Bought it! Nice honest U.S. Army 1917, all numbers matching..with a well worn but original finish.. nice stocks..no pits and excellent mechanics and bore and a great trigger! Out the door for $525 using my C&R FFL,so didn't even have to pay sales tax. Not what I would call "collectible" grade..but right up my alley. Happy Monday! While I was there..another buyer came through the door and the look on his face..well... I at least let him fondle it..just a bit..

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Congratulations! I would have bought it, too. Those flat top grips were on the early ones.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Bookends! I like the 1917s and bought the nice one from a forum member. I like them enough to buy another..and another. Foolish hobby. The finish on this recent one is fair to poor and looks like someone cleaned it down with a burlap bag soaked in acetone..but the steel is not scratched,pitted or rusty and it functions like new.I'll take it out later and see how it shoots. Hey..a hundred year old car should look and run as well.

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LOVE the gun. I lusted over an EARLY 1917 for the longest. I finally bought one for around $500 and dearly love it. I constantly look at the GHS and the grooved hammer. Mine shoots better than I do. Just enjoy it like I do. Savour the history!

Roger

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Eph 2:8-9

Nice one! Feb 1918, in case you're interested.

I think there might be a possibility that the younger guys have wised up. It used to be rare to see a younger guy shooting an older revolver. I've been volunteering as a RO at my local gun club due to shortness of help and noticed an increase in the older Smiths on the line. A young guy in a mohawk that shoots quite often was shooting an early 5 screw .22 Masterpiece the other day, I commented on how good it was working. He said "Its a '47, I can't believe how accurate it is and fun to shoot." I just said "Keep up the good work and enjoy yourself."

A 1917 is one of the ones on my short list. Looks like you got yourself a great one. Now we need a range report !

Wondering what ammo to use in my grandfather's M1917 military issued WWI pistol. He was in Argonne for the defense in the Cavalry with Machine gunners. Really don't want to do anything to damage this piece as it is original. Thank you for all recommendations.

Welcome Robert standard 45acp will be fine no plus P though. If you start a new thread you will likely get more replies.

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Randy

Welcome to the Forum, Robert.

Yes, please start a new thread and post pictures as well. We love pictures!!

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Hi Robert:

Welcome to the Forum. You can't go wrong using standard velocity ammo in your Model 1917. Issued ammo for the piece was 230 gr. ball (round nose) .45ACP ammo. Unless you have 1/2 or 1/3 moon clips, you'll have to use your fingernails or a pencil to get the fired cartridge casings out of the cylinder. Though it might be harder to find, as well as a bit more expensive, you might want to look at the 185 gr. semi-wadcutter .45ACP ammo. This round is popular for target shooting and plinking.

Best of luck,

Dave

One nice thing about shooting .45 ACP in a revolver is that you do not need to worry about bullet profile. That is, hollow points, soft points, etc will not cause feeding problems as they could in a semi-auto. Of course, different bullet weights will have different points of impact, but that's true regardless of what you shoot them out of.

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You're shy a few manners.