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Old 06-13-2017, 07:20 PM
singlestack2974 singlestack2974 is offline
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Default SV Model 10

I read about the SV Mod 10s here in this forum.
I wasn't aware the SV series came into being after a dropped Victory/Mod 10 fell and discharged, killing the Sailor.
I was hoping someone can identify and give me a rough estimate on the year this SV Mod 10 went out. Also what kind of grips does she really ship with?
I got her off GB for $320. I hope I didn't over pay for her.
Her finish isnt what it use to be and she's wearing those awful Hogues. It looks like a grandma wearing Teeny bopper clothes and it just doesn't seem right for her.
Please see attached photos.















Thanks in advance y'all.
Jim


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Old 06-13-2017, 07:49 PM
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Tough to say. All the military SVs were shipped in 1945, no particular rhyme or reason to the order in which they shipped. None were sent to the British. There were quite a few SV frames left over after VJ Day, and those were made up in civilian style (blued with checkered wood grips and lanyard loop holes plugged). Those were all shipped for civilian sale during the first four months of 1946. The SV series ceases at about SV 813xxx. Was then changed to the S series in continued numerical sequence. If yours is blued, not phosphated, it is probably one of the civilian SVs. From your pictures I'd say it is civilian. SVs are NOT Model 10s. Or even pre-Model 10s.

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Old 06-13-2017, 08:47 PM
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Hers my recent SV.



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Old 06-13-2017, 08:50 PM
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Here's my recent SV pickup.



Jeff that SV's beautiful!
Jim
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:51 PM
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Thanks Jim! You did well for yours at that price. Take some Kroil and Bronze 0000 wool and I believe it'll clean up even better!
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:53 PM
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Tough to say. All the military SVs were shipped in 1945, no particular rhyme or reason to the order in which they shipped. None were sent to the British. There were quite a few SV frames left over after VJ Day, and those were made up in civilian style (blued with checkered wood grips and lanyard loop holes plugged). Those were all shipped for civilian sale during the first four months of 1946. The SV series ceases at about SV 813xxx. Was then changed to the S series in continued numerical sequence. If yours is blued, not phosphated, it is probably one of the civilian SVs. From your pictures I'd say it is civilian. SVs are NOT Model 10s. Or even pre-Model 10s.
DWalt, Thanks for the info. Never knew they were Victories and never pre or Model 10s.
Yup it isn't phosphated. Looks blued with a plugged lanyard hole. Definitely civillian.
BTW, how difficult is it to get rid of the plugged lanyard ring hole so I can place a lanyard ring on it?
Jim
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:56 PM
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BTW, how difficult is it to get rid of the plugged lanyard ring hole so I can place a lanyard ring on it?
Jim
Jim, the plugged hole is original. These wouldn't have come with a lanyard unless Special ordered. Mine is also plugged.

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Old 06-13-2017, 09:50 PM
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Jim, the plugged hole is original. These wouldn't have come with a lanyard unless Special ordered. Mine is also plugged.

Thanks for the reply. By the looks of that plug, it'll difficult to take the plug off.
Jim
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:26 AM
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It's very simple, the plug is just held in by a small transverse pin in the grip frame. But it is authentic and as-shipped with the plug in place. I'd leave it alone unless you plan to carry it in a holster and with a lanyard. Original grips could be the pre-war style Magnas (scarce and very desirable) as shown in the pictures, or the post-war sharp shoulder Magnas (more common) used until about 1953. They look much the same, but the checkering design is quite a bit different.

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Old 06-14-2017, 09:17 AM
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"It's very simple, the plug is just held in by a small transverse pin in the grip frame."

I'm not so sure of that. The original lanyard loop was meant to swivel 360 degrees. That plug is polished very well and I'm GUESSING it may be soldered into place. I have a 2nd Model .44 that had a plugged lanyard loop hole but I'd believe it was non-factory. I used an easy out and heat to remove the plug.

Maybe someone who owns a SV M&P can take theirs and see if the plug will rotate, using only finger pressure of course.
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:59 PM
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The plug on my SV is pinned into place.
Nothing going to rotate here.
The plug is polished, along with the frame, leaving very little telltale signs of it's existence. It is a job well done.
I don't collect Victory's, but, having this one is a great example of a Post War commercial model.

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Old 06-14-2017, 02:55 PM
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Not having seen one, my supposition is that the plugs would not have the circumferential groove to allow the plug to be rotated, probably more likely just clearance for pin insertion through the grip frame, just as barrels are pinned in place to the frame on earlier revolvers. That would be the simplest way.
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:17 PM
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Those commercial SVs make me think of a Jeep with a real nice paint job!
And maybe some better seat cushions.

Just to throw a hitch in the get-along:




Already posted and debated in the database thread.
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by singlestack2974 View Post
I read about the SV Mod 10s here in this forum.

I was hoping someone can identify and give me a rough estimate on the year this SV Mod 10 went out. Also what kind of grips does she really ship with?
Hi
Based on the plugged swivel hole and the finish, I'd say it is 99% certain this gun shipped after the war. That would be reinforced by the serial number. Guns in this serial range (SV809xxx) were shipping in March and April, 1946. I show one about 100 numbers higher that shipped in April. I also show some with lower numbers that shipped in March.

As DWalt stated, it is not a Model 10. The Model 10 was not available until 1958, and by that time the M&P had the short action. Yours would simply be called a postwar .38 Military & Police revolver.

The original stocks would most likely have been the postwar style Magna stocks with the sharp shoulder. It is possible it shipped with prewar style Magna stocks, as some of the earliest postwar M&Ps did. (See my picture below.)

Here are two postwar M&P revolvers. Both are wearing stocks that number to the gun. The 5" example has the prewar style (shipped in March, 1946), the 4" example wears the postwar style (shipped in December, 1946). I own three others that shipped in March, 1946, wearing postwar style stocks.

Notice that the March gun (5") still has the threaded hammer stud, while the December gun has the stud pressed into the frame and is nearly invisible.
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:23 AM
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All the military SVs were shipped in 1945, no particular rhyme or reason to the order in which they shipped.
Yes. The highest serial number shipped to the Navy was SV802722. It left the factory on August 13, 1945, one day before Japan surrendered to the Allies (or two, depending on which side of the dateline you want to use).
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Not having seen one, my supposition is that the plugs would not have the circumferential groove to allow the plug to be rotated, probably more likely just clearance for pin insertion through the grip frame, just as barrels are pinned in place to the frame on earlier revolvers. That would be the simplest way.
Now that makes sense. It would be a lot easier and cheaper than soldering it.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:49 AM
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I noticed that the OP's gun has the S stamped on the right back frame, above the Victory stock but under a magna.

So was this done on all SV prefix guns? I was always under the impression that this stamp denoted the refurbished and upgraded guns which went back to the factory on the Navy contract, but it appears I was misinformed.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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I think the "S" was to denote "hammer block safety" and also that the sideplate was the modified one with a groove cut into the metal. This groove lined up with the hammer block safety.

Maybe the revolvers returned for re-fitting had the "s" stamped on them to denote the safety modification. I wonder if a new side plate was installed or the old one re-cut...??
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:48 AM
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I may be remembering this wrong but wasn't some of these guns marked VS?
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:56 AM
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I believe that the "S" stamp on the sideplate was done for a short time simply to visually distinguish new from old sideplates. The machined cuts on the back side are different, and pre-safety sideplates will not interchange with those made to accommodate the improved drop safety. I don't believe it has anything to do with post-manufacture conversion. I don't know when the "S" sideplate stamping ceased, but not too far into the post-WWII period.
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:22 PM
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I may be remembering this wrong but wasn't some of these guns marked VS?
As far as I have been able to determine, only one has been found. I'm convinced it was a mistake. The V is smaller than the S and is out of line with the rest of the serial number.

The Standard Catalog seems to imply there were more of them, but so far no evidence of that has been produced.
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:53 PM
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There has been speculation about the sole VS prefix recorded (VS 811119). I believe that is the only reference to a VS prefix, and your guess as to its authenticity is as good as mine. Someone here has seen it, and reported that does not look like a factory-applied SN. There is obviously some overlap between V-prefix frames and SV-prefix frames, and apparently some frames initially stamped with V-prefix SNs may have had the S added later. That's one reason that a VS-prefix is unlikely. The highest SV-prefix I have listed is SV8131xx, but I also show one having a slightly higher SN which is suspect. The lowest S-series I have listed is S8136xx. It would be nice to be able to fill in all the blanks regarding SNs of these. I have yet to see any data regarding how many SVs were military vs. post-war civilian. That information would also be interesting to establish.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-15-2017 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:45 PM
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There has been speculation about the sole VS prefix recorded (VS 811119). I believe that is the only reference to a VS prefix, and your guess as to its authenticity is as good as mine. Someone here has seen it, and reported that does not look like a factory-applied SN.
I have seen photos of it. A Forum member owns it. Personally, I think it was factory stamped (albeit, oddly done), but I also believe it is a unique error. I seriously doubt another one will show up.

And the number is not VS811119. That number is actually on an SV gun, and it stands immediately before the first simple S prefix gun (S811120), but it is not the highest SV number (as you noted above).

The sole known VS gun is in the 813xxx range.
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:08 PM
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Default SV Prefix Pawn Shop Rescue

Purchased SV Prefix today from Pawn Shop. What did I get? Not familiar with Post War M&P's but interested to learn. Input will be much appreciated.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:00 AM
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Purchased SV Prefix today from Pawn Shop. What did I get? Not familiar with Post War M&P's but interested to learn. Input will be much appreciated.
Yup, that's one just like discussed here. All-matching with what looks like the desirable pre-war magna stocks.

Just read through this thread, and you'll know all there is to know.

Nice find!
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Old 06-29-2017, 05:42 AM
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What did I get? Not familiar with Post War M&P's but interested to learn. Input will be much appreciated.
A very early postwar .38 M&P. I show some with very nearby serial numbers that shipped on March 8, 1946. There are a few more with slightly higher numbers that left the factory on March 20. I believe it is a near certainty that yours shipped that month. I have yet to find a single postwar M&P with the prewar stocks that shipped later than March of 1946.

The highest serial number I've found with a March, 1946, ship date is S816865. That example has a 4" barrel and lives in my safe. There are some with serial numbers lower than that which shipped in April and there was a group in the S815xxx range that shipped to the Cleveland Police Department in February, 1946.

Except for the oddly marked VS8134xx (mentioned earlier in this thread), the highest SV number I have located is SV813132. That gun shipped on April 4, 1946, and has a 5" barrel.
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:46 PM
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Default SV Prefix

Thank you for the excellent information. Attached are more pictures of this SV Prefix find. From what can be seen, is the hole underneath cylinder latch and sideplate "S" pretty standard features? Also, I'm not seeing a plug where lanyard hole should be. Based on serial number ranges posted, would the production number be around 40,000 on the SV's? Through additional Forum searches I've learned more about the SV Prefix revolvers since yesterday's post. The treasure-hunt and research on Smith's is fantastic and this Forum and knowledge available is endless. I found the following in-depth link to be helpful in my search.
The Postwar Commercial Victory Model
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:49 PM
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The S in the SV prefix and the S stamped in the upper corner of the sideplate both indicate the presence of the newer sliding hammer block safety. This change was approved in September, 1944 and production of the improved guns began in December of that year. The first shipments to the military began in January, 1945.

The S on the sideplate was put there to indicate a sideplate that had the additional machining necessary to accommodate the improved hammer block.

The hole in the frame just below the thumb piece is threaded to accept the hammer pivot stud, which has matching male threads and is screwed into the frame from the inside at that location. You can see the rounded end of the stud on your revolver. On January 18, 1946, an order was issued to replace the threaded hammer stud with one that pressed into the frame. Once that change was implemented, the hole became virtually invisible, since the new stud was pressed into place and polished off flush with the outside of the frame before bluing was applied. Revolver #S819462 is reported to be the first M&P to receive the new design. Guns in that serial range were shipping in June, 1946.

I did notice in your pictures that there is no evidence of a plugged swivel hole on your revolver. At SV812xxx we would expect a hole, but once in a while there isn't one where we expect it to be.
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