I just acquired a Model 31 (I think...) .32 Long CTG with a serial number of 468898. The Blue Book gives a huge range of 1911-1942...Not much help there. Is this what S&W calls "Detailed Information" that they want more than I paid for this gun? This pistol is a basket case.

I am wanting to make this a practice project, as I am training to be a gunsmith. I lost the lower half of my leg in a head-on (not my fault) so I am disabled and Vocational Rehab is paying for the training, for which I am very thankful...nevertheless, funds are extremely tight.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Don Lawlis
Indy

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Welcome to the forum. That gun probably dates to 1926-1927. Technically it is not a Regulation Police because the frame has not been rebated to take the larger square butt stocks that are the hallmark of the RP models. When it was sold, this gun was called a .32 Hand Ejector.

It is also technically not a Model 31 (or 30 in this case), because model numbers didn't come into use until 30 years after this gun was manufactured. By that time there had been some changes to the frame configuration and action. This gun can be considered an ancestor of the later Model 30, but calling it by a model number kind of obscures its greater age and the design differences.

Sorry to hear about the accident, but I'm glad you are studying gunsmithing. That particular gun is a resurrection challenge, to be sure! Good luck with the project -- and in the future.

__________________
David Wilson

Don:

Welcome to the forum!!

So sorry to hear about your accident, and hope that you are recovering as well as possible. I'm also happy to see that you are taking up gunsmithing!!

Here is my .32 Hand Ejector, Third Model, serial number 382870, which shipped in August of 1923. By the way, the heat treated cylinders were introduced in 1920, and since we know that yours was made after mine, and probably, as David suggests around 1926-1927, once you get your project done, it will be safe to shoot with modern .32 S&W Long (or Short, for that matter) ammunition. Some others may be along shortly with some additional serial numbers and dates that will help bracket the date on yours:



Mine needed quite a bit of work when I first got it, but it is a great little shooter now.

The forum is one of the best places on the Internet to get information about Smith and Wessons. There are many experts here on all of the various incarnations of Smith, from the earliest examples to the modern auto loaders and rifles.

Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Don,

welcome to S&W. glad you are here.
Best of luck in your new vocation, i hope you do well.....

__________________
There's nowt so queer as folk

I also wish you the best with your new direction. And when I looked at your pics and read your post, I also said, "That looks like my old .32 Hand Ejector."

Hi Dan welcome to the forum.

Congrats on your project and the opportunity to become a gunsmith.

I put your #468898 as shipped in the last half of 1927.

Have you determined if the parts are original? This will help:

SERIAL # LOCATIONS: To confirm all parts are original, one can check for the 6 matching serial # locations for fixed sight pre war Hand Ejectors and all post war Hand Ejectors thru ~1956 and a few as much as 3 years later.
NOTE: Observing serial #s for accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, and an attitude that it is there!

1. Gun butt - or fore strap on I frames/single shots with grips that cover the butt

2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud

3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight

4. Extractor star - backside

5. Cylinder - rear face

6. Right stock only - on back; stamped, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material. (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)

ASSEMBLY (factory work) #s: These multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the ‘yoke cut’ on frame opposite the yoke near the hinge, and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and early post war period. The assembly # in the yoke cut of the frame was relocated to the left side of grip frame after model #s were assigned in 1957 and the serial # was eventually added in the ‘yoke cut’ where the assembly #, now moved to the left side of the grip frame, used to be. You know they are assembly (factory work) #s because of those 3 locations that always match on guns that are original, and that’s the only usefulness for them after guns leave the factory: still used to this day, long after serial number locations decreased.


How much work does it appear to need besides assembly?

This video for disassembly/assembly may help:


It's for a Model 10 but you'll find it close enough to yours to work.
I don't use the special tool but it does make it a bit easier.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks so much for all the great information. I really do appreciate it.

I have/am recovering from the amputation. I had it done a little over a year ago in April. I am getting ready for a new prosthetic (my second one) that should make walking a little easier.

I had been an outside sales rep calling on big truck shops and fleets, but there will be periods of time I will be stuck in my chair, so gunsmithing seemed like a good route to go. I can be in my chair when I need to and not have to miss work. Which, most jobs I'm qualified for, wouldn't go for sporadic attendance anyway.

Also, I have been a hunter since I was a 12 year old boy and I have been around guns and old rusty machinery and trucks my whole life. I love antique tools and machinery as well as old &/or historically relevant guns. Got my M1, SKS's, 1894 30/30 (pre'64) and a Schmidt-Rubin K31 plus this little basket case and too many newer weapons...

I am pretty sure this little.32 is all original. I saw the same serial # in a 2nd location,, I just don't recall where at this point. I will check the other serial # locations tomorrow and reply back... Thanks again for jumping right on my request, I really, really appreciate it!

Don Lawlis
Indy

Welcome Sound guy!

We sure need some Revolver Smiths, best of luck on your endeavors.

The closest .32 SN I have listed to yours is 4417xx (an RP) which shipped in 9/26. That supports previous assumptions yours was probably shipped in 1927.

Thanks again for your replies!!!

Jim- I have checked all the locations for the serial numbers and they are all the same except, alas, there are no grips. As nearly as I can tell the only issue I see other than some missing screws and possibly a spring or 2, is that the yoke has been damaged on the sleeve that the cylinder turns on. It looks as if the sleeve is welded to the yoke assembly. It doesn't appear that it would be difficult to make a new sleeve and weld it back in place. I guess if it got destroyed trying to take it apart, it wouldn't matter since I would probably have to replace the whole yoke anyway. I may be able to dress it. I will attempt that first

Also, in the Jack First catalog, I found gun # 832 described as an S&W 1903 2nd change through 3rd Model 32 hand eject revolver. I believe this is the correct schematic. All I can find in Numrich's catalog are J frame revolvers listing model numbers. Any suggestions on sourcing the yoke?

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Soundguy 62,

Allow me to add my welcome to the S&W Forum... we have lots of fun here, and there are a bunch of us who like those little I-frame revolvers from before WW II... don't ask me why because I don't have a good answer!

Another source of parts I have found useful is Larry Poppert in PA. He advertises on Gun Broker regularly as shoto-man. He doesn't have a yoke listed as of tonight, but it might be worth an e-mail or phone call... he has provided me with some really good stuff over the last few years.

If you really want to develop your chops as a gunsmith, you might also consider installing a set of J-frame adjustable sights (like from a Model 34) to that gun. Friend Hondo44 has shown one he owns that had that "upgrade" done to it and inspires pure lust every time the picture comes out.

As for the grips, there are repros available of the original hard rubber as well as a variety of aftermarket ones to suit any taste. Also, the J-frame grips that completely enclose the grip frame can be used on your little I-frame too. I've used the Model 34 Factory Target grips on a couple of mine over the years as well as aftermarket grips by Herrett and Mustang. Since the I-frame grip frame is only about 0.125" shorter than the J-frame, you can also trim some of the later grips to fit.

Regards,
Froggie

I never source new serial numbered parts unless absolutely needed. I see no problem fixing the dent in the sleeve. It's not a high stress part and won't show when assembled. All you need to do is get it concentric both inside and out. Usually easier than trying to fit and finish replacement major parts, like a yoke.

My suggestions below will exemplify the need for acquiring a tool inventory, or at least enough to be able to make basic tools. You don't need to buy every tool available, especially those you won't need often. A small lathe is one of the first you'll need.

First I'd turn a brass mandrel to fit the ID of the sleeve. Polish it, lubrigate it, and tap in to remove as much of the dent as possible. Then do a "clean up with the proper size finishing reamer. The inside of the sleeve is not a critical bearing surface but the extractor spring must move up and down w/o binding.

Lastly dress down and polish the outside of the sleeve round and concentric. This is a critical surface but it can be slightly undersize for the short length of the dent. And hold lubrication.

You're knowledge of parts interchangeability amongst different models will be invaluable. Don't rely on the accuracy of parts websites; they're often wrong and confusing. It helps to have a small S&W gun collection of basic models for reference.

Also the 'Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson' new 4th edition is helpful for the evolution and parts changes of different models. Also serial # lists to help date S&W model vintage.

Joining other gun brand forums like Ruger, Colt, etc., will help as well.


Parts sources:

Ebay and Gunbroker are the best. Search for "smith parts kits". You can get many parts in one auction for the price of one new part and start building a parts and screws inventory for future projects.

Post an adv on this forum under the classified section.

Brownells: Gunsmithing supplies, equipment, gun parts, technical advice.
Mail Address: 200 South Front Street, Montezuma, IA 50171
Phone: 800-741-0015
Fax: 641-623-3896
Web Site: World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS

George Dye (at David Carroll's) for old Smith parts, sight blades, etc.

GUN GARAGE on Ebay (for screws)
http://stores.ebay.com/Gun-Garage

"elysianfield!" on Ebay, lanyard swivel $20 shipped and nicely blued. Specify for S&W

"Aonepawninc" http://stores.ebay.com/aonepawninc
has a bunch of S&W parts for sale. I just ordered a complete hammer for my pre model 30 from them. They are very customer oriented and have very reasonable prices. 1/10/16

Dave Bennett: Parts and guns from 1900 up to 1970's.
e-Mail: [email protected]
Web Site: www.22ammobox.com

David Clements - Clements Custom Guns
PH: 276-238-8761
2766 Mt. Zion Rd.
Woodlawn, VA 24381
[email protected]
Clements Custom Guns

Jack First: Large selection of Pre- and Post-WWII parts. Sells working
parts to FFL dealers only.
Phone: 605-343-9544

Gun Parts Corp: Successor to Numrich Arms; many guns parts.
226 Williams Lane, West Hurley, NY 12491
Phone: 845-679-2417
e-Mail: [email protected]
Web Site: www.gunpartscorp.com

Jim Horvath: Many parts for all S&W's (large and small) from 1860 up;
can reproduce parts.
e-Mail: [email protected]

Jeff Lee: Lee's Gun Parts (an extensive supply of gun parts, including S&W)Mike who works for Lee has 45 M25 barrels.
(Open to the public on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays).
3401 W. Pioneer, Suite 2, Irving, TX 75061
Phone: 972-790-0773
www.leesgunparts.com/‎

Jan Matlega: Parts for Pre-WWII S&W hand-ejectors.
Mail Address: 528 Eddy Glover
New Britain, CT 06053
Phone: 860-229-6872

Poppert's Gun Parts: http://www.poppertsgunparts.com/
P.O. Box 413
Glenside, PA 19038
Tel: 215-887-2391 Fax: 215-887-5816
Email: [email protected]

Charlie Pate: Provides screws (original & reproduction) for S&W Tip-ups and Top-breaks; author of books and articles on S&W guns.
Phone: 703-533-8057
e-Mail: [email protected]

Phil Saccacio: Phone: 540-456-6405
e-Mail: [email protected]

Dave Szilagy: Manufactures parts for older S&W's.
Mail Address: 3107 Electric, Lincoln Park, MI 48146
e-Mail: [email protected]

Mike Veilleux: Guns and Gun Parts
All Parts inc. for Pre- and Post-WWII S&W's.
Phone: 413-732-9938
e-Mail: [email protected]
Web Site: www.gunsnparts.com


Liberty Tree Collectors Phone:207-285-3111
139 Main Street, Corinth, ME 04427
Email:[email protected]
Liberty tree collectors has original, CCH lanyard rings (but without the retaining pin) for $25.

S&W Parts; antique and new
[email protected]
Ph: 352 394-7412

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

At first glance you need:

Trigger rebound slide
Cyl release bolt tiny return spring and plunger
Hand spring for inside the trigger
side plate hammer block safety
front locking bolt spring
Cyl latch bolt, spring, plunger and screw for front of trigger guard
Mainspring tension screw
Four side plate screws
Is there a 3/4" coil spring on the ctr pin inside the extractor rod?

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Froggie-Thanks for your suggestions, They truly are appreciated!

Don Lawlis
Indy

Jim-Thanks again for all of your help. I really appreciate you sharing your sources.

I am in the process of getting my FFL, so Jack First & Numrich's will probably be a go to... I do have their catalogs. I also use Brownell's, Ebay, Amazon and Midway USA quite a bit... I'm building my tool collection and I have already amassed several good screwdrivers and punch sets brass & steel, pin and roll pin from Grace and a multi-bit set from Wheeeler... I also have a good, complete set of hand tools (not low end junk) files, stones, hammers (all types), pliers, AR armorer's tool kit, belt sander Oxy-Acetylene torch with brazing tips and the ability to use it and more. Foredom tool is coming soon. Also I'm looking for a new bench grinder, an old dinosaur drill press, SB lathe & Bridgeport mill. (+tooling for those behemoths)

I've seen used ancient machines, just pulled from service, like these for south of $1k! So why would I buy some shiny, new, chincy, off-shore trash that probably won't last as long as these american classics, which will continue to be serviceable? Maybe even decades into the future.... but probably long after the afore-mentioned imports are indistinguishable piles of rust!?!?
Thoughts?

What would y'all recommend for a gunsmith's vice? I have a 4-1/2" bench vise, but I need an actual gunsmith's vise. I have looked at the gunsmith's vise from Brownell's and I think Midway has nearly the same vise (both weigh about 18lbs,) for less than 1/4 of Brownell's price...

I will have to take a little bit of time and see exactly what I do need for the .32 and get it sourced. As far as what you mentioned, I believe that is a pretty inclusive list...

Jim, again, thank you so very much. It really means a lot to me!

Don

Jim, it looks to me like you are correct in your parts needed assessment.I don't think there is a spring for the pivot pin inside the extractor rod.The extractor was in the cylinder and I diassembled it. There was only the one spring for the extractor...Looks like I'll need that, too...

Thanks,

Don Lawlis
Indy

Jim-I have tried twice to post a lengthy reply using the respond to quote button...I actually realized the inner spring was still on the ejector rod...I need a big, lighted magnifier. Also, I'm looking for a gunsmith's vise. The one at Brownells for $300 appears identical (and same identical weight) as the Shop Fox at Midway for $60.

Thoughts?

I have a complete set of Mechanic's tools from a former life as a heavy duty truck & equipment mechanic. I have amassed a good selection of Grace screwdrivers, brass and steel roll pin, straight and tapered pin & starter punches. Also have some Wheeler punch sets and multi tip screwdriver set. I have an old, but beyond complete oxy-acetylene torch with a bunch of different sized mixer handles and brazing/welding tips that belonged to my papaw. (still miss him) That is what he taught me on and I value that more than gold. He was a machinist and welder and passed down some of his knowledge to me.

I am considering a mig/tig combo...

Any thoughts on that would be appreciated as well...

A Foredom tool is the next item I'm getting. I have a good & heavy Jet belt sander I stole...Like new 6X48 belt X8 disc for $300! In the not too distant future I will get a dinosaur drill press, SB lathe and a Bridgeport mill + tooling for those behmoths. I have seen several of those american made classics for under $2k that were just removed from service. I have seen some listed still operating for under $1K. I figure I can get those incredible machines, for much less $$$ than an off-shore made pile of tin, that will probably still be going, when those imports are nothing more than scrap.

Thoughts?

Again, I want to thank everyone for being so willing to help out an old guy newb...You have no idea how much I really appreciate it.

Don Lawlis

Indy