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Old 06-17-2017, 06:10 PM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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Default Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust Co. M &P?

Am wondering if anyone has factory letter info on Cleveland Trust Co. (CTC) bank police M&P from the 1920's? I have two (427xxx and 429xxx) and am wondering if they were part of a large shipment in the early 20's. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:33 PM
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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Do you have reason to believe yours are connected with Cleveland Trust? Like something stamped on the revolvers? Your SNs suggest they are indeed from the 1922-23 period. I have read that the Cleveland Trust Co. guards had some surplus Model 1909 Colt revolvers. Long ago I worked in the Cleveland Trust building at East 9th and Euclid Ave. I think that building was demolished many years ago and a different one is there today.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-18-2017 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:45 AM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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DWalt, Both revolvers are stamped "CTC" on left frame and one of them was purchased with a Cleveland Trust Bank Police badge from the family of original owner. Since both of my examples are close in serial no. I wondered if they were part of a larger shipment in the early 20's. I live in Cleveland so they hold a interesting connection for me. Ron
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:56 AM
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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About the only way to attempt finding a positive connection to CTC is to letter either or both of them. If CTC ordered them directly from S&W, the letter will reveal that. But CTC could have purchased them from some distributor, in which case there would be no factory record as to where they went after they left the distributor. You might get lucky.

I remember that while I was living and working in Cleveland, George Gund (who was the chairman of CTC) died.
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:56 AM
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
.....But CTC could have purchased them from some distributor, in which case there would be no factory record as to where they went after they left the distributor. You might get lucky.
....
Based on my observations, pre-WW II it was indeed much more common for agencies and companies to buy through distributors rather than order directly from the factory.

But you might still get lucky. My 450345 from 1923 lettered as shipped to a large distributor in Minneapolis, but the letter noted that the shipment was for the Minneapolis PD, which is what I hoped to find out. So you could roll the dice if you can spare the money for a letter.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:56 PM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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Being that I'm on a fixed budget the cost of a letter is a bit prohibitive so I'll just have to continue to speculate or hope that a forum member may be able to help. Thanks to all. Ron
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:54 PM
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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At last. 15 or so years ago I bought a very nice 5" 20's .38 with CTC stamped just behind the thumb latch. Always wondered what it was ! If you hang around this forum long enough you'll probably find out. Mine is 431xxx, has" made in usa " and convex stock circle stocks. It would be interesting to find if they were all shipped at once or over time. Anyway i'm glad to have one more mystery solved. I'd like to find out more.

Last edited by jayn.32; 06-18-2017 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:03 AM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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jayn.32, Sorry for the delay in responding. Glad to have had a hand in solving the CTC mystery for you. Most of these CTC S&W seem to be in the 427xxx-430xxx range so likely were part of a large shipment procured by the Cleveland Trust Co. to arm their bank police. Hopefully someone has a factory letter on one to determine if this is the case. I have tried to do some local research on these guns, but have had only limited success up to this point. Historical research is time consuming, but very rewarding in the long run. Ron
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:43 AM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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Just came across an interesting article from the August, 1922 issue of Banker's Monthly magazine. The article details some of the work of John T. Shibley, chief of the CTC Safety Dept., in the training of bank employees in the use of handguns, machine guns and shotguns to thwart potential robbers. The article states that the bank had a pistol range in the basement of the building for regular target practice sessions. Both male and female employees took part in the training and the article shows a picture of Shibley and 3 women employees with revolvers in hand. The full article is available online.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:23 PM
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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The Cleveland Trust Co. was for many years THE powerhouse in finance and banking, not only in Cleveland but in Ohio. The CTC chairman from the 1940s onward, George Gund, until his death in the mid-1960s was especially powerful and influential. I am not sure exactly how it occurred, but through the typical chain of mergers and acquisitions during the banking crisis of the 1980s, it later became AmeriTrust.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-20-2017 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:49 PM
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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...Female workers practice protecting the main vault of the strong room at the Cleveland Trust Company, Ohio, 1924, in the early days of Al Capone and ‘Bugs’ Moran...

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Old 06-20-2017, 04:25 PM
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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They are not wearing protection! Surprising that, at that time, there would be any female bank guards. There were hardly any female cops back then.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-20-2017 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:40 PM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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ParadiseRoad, Where did you get that great photo? Looks like they are using M&P's. Ron
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:10 PM
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Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P? Anyone have letter for Cleveland Trust  Co. M &P?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BibleronKJV View Post
ParadiseRoad, Where did you get that great photo? Looks like they are using M&P's. Ron
...just for the heck of it...I did an image search for Cleveland Trust Company...and that was one of the photos that popped up...
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