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Old 06-18-2017, 04:28 PM
Sig_Lover Sig_Lover is offline
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Several years ago I purchaced many victory model pistols. One cought my eye. it origionaly had NO finish. has several coats of paint. mostly black but there is some red under on the barrel. markings on the gun itself are lost to the paint. SN on But is V 114. the frame markings with cylinder open apear to be V 114 ? butt are blocked by the paint.
Can any one give me some information of this gun. history, mfg date, value, etc.
Any and All information will be appreciated.
Pictues included.
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:35 PM
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What caliber and barrell length?
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:42 PM
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That gun shipped August 11, 1942 - it has been mentioned previously in this forum. It is a British Service Revolver (BSR) Victory, .38 S&W caliber. The black paint could be Suncorite, a paint sometimes used by the British for gun finishing and refinishing. In that condition its value would not be high, maybe $300-$400.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-18-2017 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:44 PM
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If the right barrel (can't see the stampings clearly, and due to the paint maybe you can't either ) is marked ".38 S & W CTG" and stamped with the same serial number on the barrel flat near the ejector rod, it is a very early British/Commonwealth Victory Model from 1942. The U.S. version of this model used the .38 Special; if one of these chambers fully it was modified to do so, a common post-war alteration.

It originally had a Parkerized or similar finish, and the British often refinished them with black paint. There was a recent thread here about "Suncorite", which may be the material used. It would obviously be worth more with original finish but is interesting due to the SN.

It is interesting to have such a low SN, as the U.S. was turning out VMs for our forces as quickly as possible and I would think guns for export would have taken a back seat. There is a running thread here for Victory Model database information and posting there will get you connected to some real experts. Hope this is helpful.
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:45 PM
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It's obviously a British Service Model. The black paint as well as white painted numbers as inventory or unit markings of some sort are relatively common on Enfield revolvers from the same era, but not seen that often applied to BSR's.

Attached an example from my picture collection (unknown web source).
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:47 PM
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A very high percentage of the early Victories (but just how high I do not know) were BSRs in .38 S&W.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
It is interesting to have such a low SN, as the U.S. was turning out VMs for our forces as quickly as possible and I would think guns for export would have taken a back seat.
Boy, Alan, I don't know. Remember that S&W owed the Brits a ton of money for the up-front payment they got for a light infantry rifle they never produced. They negotiated a deal whereby they would pay off the debt by delivering revolvers. I don't know if this was squared up by April, 1942, or not, but I doubt they were reluctant to keep delivering the BSR to the UK.

Of course, by mid-March they were also producing .38 Special revolvers under the Navy contract (signed on March 2), so production had to be humming along pretty quickly.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:20 AM
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...... I don't know if this was squared up by April, 1942, or not, but I doubt they were reluctant to keep delivering the BSR to the UK.
......
Keep in mind that by that date all BSR's were produced for Lend-lease, which for practical purposes meant that as far as the factory was concerned, any revolver they were producing (except for DSC guns) was for the US Government, in either version. Uncle Sam paid the tab. And S&W delivered the BSR's not to the UK, but to Army Ordnance at Hartford; very nitpicky, I know , but I'm just mentioning it to illustrate my point that the decision what was produced likely did not depend in any way on the factory's preferences or priorities.

They delivered what they could produce, based on what the government contracts called for. And that was that .

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Old 06-19-2017, 12:57 PM
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Sure. If lend/lease guns were coming out in the fall of '41, that would mean the S&W debt to England must have been paid off by sometime that summer. Since the L/L Act passed in early 1941, the delay in L/L BSRs would be due to finishing up the guns purchased by the UK. Makes sense to me.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:12 PM
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For sure, some late 1941 pre-Victory BSRs in the mid-8xxxxx SN range had the "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" topstrap stamping. And I would assume that would make them Lend-Lease revolvers. It may even be possible that some unstamped revolvers may have gone out under the L-L program.

I think the S&W debt to the British under the ill-fated light rifle program was about $1 Million, which was refunded in revolvers. I have no idea as to what the agreed-upon price for a single revolver was for that transaction, but probably not far from $25. So it would have taken maybe 40,000 revolvers to satisfy the debt. That number could have easily been produced during the first few months of 1941, before the L-L Act passed. Maybe someone else knows more about that.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
....... I have no idea as to what the agreed-upon price for a single revolver was for that transaction, but probably not far from $25. So it would have taken maybe 40,000 revolvers to satisfy the debt. That number could have easily been produced during the first few months of 1941, before the L-L Act passed. Maybe someone else knows more about that.
Your estimate is about right. There are no prices on any BSR letters I've seen, but according to my letter for 910507, a .38 Spl. 4-incher, from Jan 27, 1942, the DSC was billed $23.79 per gun. Price calculations for the BSR likely were comparable.
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Old Yesterday, 04:09 PM
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Thanks. paid 39.00 for it so I came out all right.
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