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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 06-21-2017, 06:43 PM
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Default 38/44s

Just took delivery of my second 38/44 HD in the last few weeks. Traded for the first one but had to pay for the second (smile).

Both of these are 4" models, one from 1946 and the latest from '51 or '52 (S 845XX). Now I have a long action and a Model of 1950 with the short action. Both revolvers have as smooth a double action pull as any factory S&W I've ever tried. Not light but smooooth.

What's driving me nuts is I can't shoot them. We're having a fairly typical June in the central Arizona desert, meaning it's bloody hot out there. 115 right now and it's supposed to top out around 117 or so. With single digit humidity that super heated air will suck the moisture out of you in no time. GASP!

I can't even take pictures as I usually do that by opening the side door to the shop and doing my photography in the indirect light in the doorway. If I were to do that today not only would I suffer (no I ain't as tough as I used to was) but stuff in my shop would start melting. (LOL)

I will get some pictures of these shooters and post them. And I got them to shoot and that will be done with real 38/44 ammo. Hand loads of course with a 158g bullet at ~1125 fps (chronographed them at 1141 from a 5" barrel but didn't own a 4" at the time). But not today and maybe not for the next couple days. Oh the joys of living in the Arizona desert. (smile)

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Old 06-21-2017, 06:48 PM
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Buffalo Bore has what amounts to a hot .38-44 load.
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Old 06-21-2017, 07:31 PM
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...but remember, it's a _dry_ heat.
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Old 06-21-2017, 07:41 PM
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Buffalo Bore has what amounts to a hot .38-44 load.
I'm very familiar with that load and if I was looking for carry ammo it would be my choice. But for my purpose, which is shooting these grand old guns for the experience and pleasure of it, a hand load duplicate is so much cheeper. (smile)

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Old 06-21-2017, 08:36 PM
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I lived out there for about 2 years and loved every minute of it. No A/C in any of my cars- well one had it, but it didn't work. I'd move back in a heartbeat. It beats 5 months of ice, snow, and bitter wind.

Now...get that HD out there and lose the excuses!
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Old 06-21-2017, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
Just took delivery of my second 38/44 HD in the last few weeks. Traded for the first one but had to pay for the second (smile).

Both of these are 4" models, one from 1946 and the latest from '51 or '52 (S 845XX). Now I have a long action and a Model of 1950 with the short action. Both revolvers have as smooth a double action pull as any factory S&W I've ever tried. Not light but smooooth.

What's driving me nuts is I can't shoot them. We're having a fairly typical June in the central Arizona desert, meaning it's bloody hot out there. 115 right now and it's supposed to top out around 117 or so. With single digit humidity that super heated air will suck the moisture out of you in no time. GASP!

I can't even take pictures as I usually do that by opening the side door to the shop and doing my photography in the indirect light in the doorway. If I were to do that today not only would I suffer (no I ain't as tough as I used to was) but stuff in my shop would start melting. (LOL)

I will get some pictures of these shooters and post them. And I got them to shoot and that will be done with real 38/44 ammo. Hand loads of course with a 158g bullet at ~1125 fps (chronographed them at 1141 from a 5" barrel but didn't own a 4" at the time). But not today and maybe not for the next couple days. Oh the joys of living in the Arizona desert. (smile)

Dave
The .38/44 sounds interesting. Are .38/44's are hard to find or command a premium when found? Thanks.
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:50 PM
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Just do what I do here in Stockton, CA, where it also gets a tad warm from time to time. About 109 today. Open your front door and shoot out the door but stay inside. Nobody notices the shots, or if they do they don't pay attention with all the background gun fire.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:14 PM
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robert,

I'm afraid the neighbor across the cul-de-sac would object (lol).

Rover,

If you're not familiar with the 38/44 it was introduced in 1930 as S&W's answer to Colt's 38 Super, for penetrating auto bodies in the gangster era. It was the grandfather of the 357 Magnum which came along in 1935. The 38/44 was, as the name describes, a 38 caliber on a 44 frame (the N-frame). The ammunition was loaded away above the +P of today (with the exception of the above mentioned Buffalo Bore 158g +P loads) and drove a 158g bullet at 1125 fps to 1150 fps, depending on the barrel length. The N-frame Heavy Duty was offered in 4", 5" and 6.5" with the 5" being the standard and most common.

Smith also introduced a sporting version called the Outdoorsman that came with adjustable sights and a 6.5" barrel as standard.

I've had an on going fascination with the cartridge and the guns made for it and after a medical set back last year that I thought had ended my shooting days, I've been given a reprieve and have once again been looking for these fine old revolvers. Earlier this year I found a 5" and as stated in my OP I've just recently found two 4" models. Got my eye out for an affordable Outdoorsman but haven't found a shooter yet. (smile)

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Old 06-21-2017, 10:18 PM
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Your pair of 4" 38/44 Heavy Duties are similar to the two that I have.

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Old 06-21-2017, 10:54 PM
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I've found a load that works great in my '51 H.D. I ran into a couple hundred old cast bullets that were made on the Lyman 358156SWC mould. The gas checks were badly tarnished but the lube had held up well. I put them over 11gr. of 2400 and took them to the range today, I love this bullet combination. I've been shooting alot of the 170 gr. Keith bullet and not too crazy about the accuracy. These 155gr. bullets with the dose of 2400 put them in a nice tight pattern if I did my job, I've always liked 2400 but for some reason never tried it in a Heavy .38 load, probably because I never had a Heavy N framed .38 to play with before. I have an Outdoorsman but its a nicer revolver and I don't work with it very much...The Heavy Duty was made for this stuff.
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:30 PM
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Here are some quick pictures I took while it's still in the low nineties.

First is my 1938 Heavy Duty 5". It came with the small stocks but to enjoy shooting it I put on this set of sheep horn Magnas I got from Grashorn.


Next is the 1946 Heavy Duty I traded for a week or so back. The Magna stocks are not numbered to the gun but since it's a shooter I don't mind.


Finally, my most recent Heavy Duty, dating from '51-'52. I know the smooth target stocks are not right for the age but they are kind of "kool" none the less. I'll probably end up putting on Magnas and a grip adapter as that's my preferred grip these days.


Now if it will just drop below 110 I'll go shoot these beasts. (smile)

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Old 06-22-2017, 02:18 PM
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Here's my one and only...
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:24 PM
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Love those HD's!

As for the heat, yesterday, I saw a newspaper headline -- "Meteorologists Predict Hot Summer". Well, duh. I ain't no meteorologist, but I predicted the same back in January.

And today, I heard a "climate scientist" on NPR say, "Today is THE HOTTEST DAY ON RECORD FOR PHOENIX .....since 1990." Ooo-kayyy.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:26 PM
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Here's my one and only...
Are those King's sights? Why don't you show us some more pics of those sights?

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Old 06-22-2017, 03:23 PM
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The .38/44's look super. I see a couple on Gunb*****.com, for prices that are to be expected. I'd like to add one to my "collection" someday.

The closest thing that S&W makes to the .38/44 today is, I guess, the Mdl 627. [Added: I left out the Mdl 27 Classic, my mistake]. I'm sure the 627's are nice guns mechanically -- and who can argue with 8 rounds of .357 or .38. But they lack the style and elegance of the Hand Ejectors. The tapering in the barrel just forward of where it meets the frame, and the underlug, just look right.
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Old 06-22-2017, 07:00 PM
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S&W Rover,

The closest thing in contemporary revolvers to the old 38/44 Heavy Duty was the limited production M-520. It was a fixed sight, 357 Mag version of the Model 28 made for the New York State Police, but it had all the characteristics of these great old fixed sighted duty revolvers. I almost put a bid on one on GunBroker when I couldn't find a 4" Heavy Duty. Glad I didn't as it cost way more than I paid for the last one I acquired.

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Old 06-22-2017, 10:53 PM
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Are those King's sights? Why don't you show us some more pics of those sights?

Mark


Yes they are King's, I had a little trouble with windage adjustment that required a little work with springs and different length screws, got it all sorted out in a couple of tries. This is the only picture of the sights that I have on file. The H.D. is wearing non relieved diamond targets currently, I like it quite a bit. These things had to be the cat's butt back in the day. Someone once told me that some law enforcement agencies were limited to .38 special for duty carry, if that was the case this would be the way to go, loaded with Super Vels.

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Old 06-23-2017, 10:10 AM
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Default Bevy of Postwar 38/44 HDs

San Diego beaches a few days ago, pushing eighties. Same day inland, Death Valley official reading of 125F!

Meanwhile, back at the ranch…. Postwar HD representation in common configurations/barrel lengths; pix below.

4” Transition - S636xx / 1950 – S844xx
5” Transition – S652xx / 1950 – S772xx
6 ½” Transition (44 Spl stand-in not shown) / 1950 6 ½” – SN 1095xx.

Not shown: Outdoorsman: Transition – S699xx / 1950 – S103xx. Guns & respective gold boxes, high condition. Few other HDs rattling around; highest SN 1420xx – 6 ½”.

None above police marked or indication of adoption.

Hooked on "N" frames. Bit more focused on 44 Spl.
All these big honkers great classic Smiths!
My take
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:03 AM
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Dave I have heard it said that you get three good month a year out there. Is there any truth to that? I hope not.
I can answer that, been here for 27 yrs. Fact Is, we get 3 bad months, 2 good months & 7 great months. The heat didn't show up this year till mid June.
I (and most) don't mind the bad months, if we didn't have them, the entire state of California would move here - half the state already has.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:06 AM
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Hooked on "N" frames.
iskra,

That describes me as well. Not as collectables but as shooters. So I don't buy pristine examples 'cause I'm just gonna get 'em dirty. (smile)

72B40,

It's more like 8 months of very nice weather with 4 months in the summer that scares away the faint of heart (lol).

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Old 06-23-2017, 05:23 PM
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Do love a good HD. I have only one, a ~1956 version, 4". Great shooter, and hope to get around to loading some actual .38-44 ammo for it.
For many years, my go-to .38 field load was the old Lyman 358156GC over 5.5 gr. of Unique. Never chrono'ed. Fairly warm though.

And I'll see your 117*/no humidity and raise you our 90*/90% humidity.
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Old 06-23-2017, 05:54 PM
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I think the maximum Unique load with the 158 grain lead bullet is given in the old Lyman handbooks as 6.3 grains, around 1200 ft/sec MV. Aside from that one, Lyman gives .38-44 loads only for 2400.
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:13 PM
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Old Corp,

I spent 19 months in Vietnam (down in the Delta) so you can keep your 90/90 weather (smile). Out here we do have to respect the desert heat as it can sneak up on you and kill you.

DeWalt,

My 38/44 hand loads are 2400, about 11.5g if I remember correctly, with a standard small pistol primer.

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