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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #301  
Old 12-18-2020, 01:36 PM
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Yes Arlen it's safe to shoot 455. You might even can shoot 45 Colt if you had any. The Colts probably a better man stopper than the Webley.

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Old 12-18-2020, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
lamarw & mrcvs,

Thank you both for the additions to the research study!

Congrats!! Those are both extremely nice examples at a very fair price!

The Triple Lock has the wrong stocks, it's true. But they are much more scarce, worth more than the correct stocks, and are from the 1930s with flat silver medallions. The correct stocks with recessed gold plated medallions are not hard to find since there were ~90,000 produced.

It's misrepresented in the auction description as being in the 44 HE 1st model serial range of 15,000. But it's actually #2934 British Svc Revolver serial range of the 2nd version:

“.455 Mark II HE - 1st Model TL” in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to over 5800* shipped 1914-15. Thus creating 67 duplicate serial #s with the 666 1st version in #1. above in the “.44 HE 1st Model TL” .455 factory conversion serial number range.

*Previously reported as 1 to 5461. After this shipment there were some of this model sold commercially all in the 5502 - 5857 range, but including a few military issues in that range as well.

The revolver #30825 BSR of the 3rd version:

3. “.455 Mark II HE - 2nd Model” (sans extractor barrel shroud and 3rd lock), and the cylinder ctr pin hole in the extractor star is reduced .020” with the associated Ext Rod rear tip reduced .020” in diameter from the TL versions, the ".44 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" factory converted to .455, and the ".455 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" produced in .455 (documented in Neal & Jinks Pg. 215-16.) This version was referred to as the MK II revolver by the British and stamped ‘II’ by them, upper left rear side of frame. The 2nd Model continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range and beginning ~ after #5857 (previously thought to be 5462) to #74755, shipped 1915-17.

The grips don't fit properly and may be off the TL; check penciled serial # on the back of the right grip to verify if it matches the TL #2934.

It's interesting that both are stamped "Simpson LTD" on the butt.

Thank you Jim for both your kind and informative comments. I too, wondered about the Simpson LTD stampings. They could of been the consignor or someone purchased both revolvers from them and later was the consignor. I do not know whether Simpson LTD is an importer or not.

The auction price shown in above attachment included the buyer's premium.
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Old 12-18-2020, 03:16 PM
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Simpson LTD
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Old 12-18-2020, 03:52 PM
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You men are great people. Thank you.
Arlan
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Old 12-18-2020, 04:42 PM
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Arlan,

Yes, it's perfectly safe to shoot the 455 in your gun! Shoot as many as you want.

It would still be interesting to know if a 45 Colt fit in the chambers, those are perfectly safe too if they fit.

Either one would ruin the meth head's day!
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Old 12-18-2020, 04:52 PM
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Thanks Guy, I did research this a little bit earlier.

I got your PM and attempted to respond. I am getting a message my PM box is over filled. I have attempted to empty it with little apparent if any apparent results.
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Old 12-18-2020, 05:32 PM
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Lamar,
You have to empty both the Inbox and Sent messages folders. There is a drop down menu above the folder controls color bar to let you select which box. Just click on the down caret to select Inbox or Sent folders.
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:42 PM
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Here is my 2nd Model. Serial #65,305.
On left side of barrel: Smith & Wesson .455.
British Army broad arrow and Enfield proofed.
On right side marked E149.
It wears a 1917 cylinder for chambering .45 AR/ACP. The original cylinder was milled for .45 ACP.
Ken


http://attachment.php?attachmentid=4...1&d=1609432445
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File Type: jpeg 0-1.jpeg (21.1 KB, 22 views)
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Old 01-02-2021, 06:49 AM
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I have a TL .455 Webley Bisley Target # 4054 without caliber, only barrel S&W address above, built around 1906
And a 2nd model .455 Webley # 21938 also without caliber
best regards
Christian
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Old 01-02-2021, 12:07 PM
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Default 455s

1709 Triple lock 455
19478 2nd 455
22425 2nd 455
27465 2nd 455
B33498 2nd 455
B59365 2nd 455
all converted AR or Colt
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Old 04-07-2021, 11:39 AM
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Triple Lock, SN: 3240, All original finish, No caliber marking, tons of British proofs so definitely military, also has what looks to be "OFL" marked on the butt of the left grip panel. Any idea what that might mean?

S&W Triple Lock - Album on Imgur

.455 Mark II, SN: 53433, Caliber marked "SMITH & WESSON .455", Crown over C marked on the butt (or maybe it's an O) so I think that makes it Canadian, shows original duller blued finish.

S&W .455 Hand Ejector Mark II - Album on Imgur
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Old 04-07-2021, 05:51 PM
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Triple Lock 2940 no caliber roll mark still in original chambering not modified original finish.
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Old 04-08-2021, 07:49 AM
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I have a 2nd model, 6 1/2 inch .455, serial 26161, the revolver was imported from Canada back in the 1970's. I do not think it has the caliber marked on the barrel.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolf View Post
I have a TL .455 Webley Bisley Target # 4054 without caliber, only barrel S&W address above, built around 1906
And a 2nd model .455 Webley # 21938 also without caliber
best regards
Christian
Thank you for those two!

I would letter #4054 to confirm factory sight installation and exact shipping date. A fairly rare gun that could have some interesting history.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:40 AM
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Thank you for those two!

I would letter #4054 to confirm factory sight installation and exact shipping date. A fairly rare gun that could have some interesting history.
There was a whole thread about this revolver: Need help identifying and old S&W Revolver
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tommy F View Post
1709 Triple lock 455
19478 2nd 455
22425 2nd 455
27465 2nd 455
2nd 455
all converted AR or Colt
Thank you for those:

1709 is a 2nd version; ".455 MkII - 1st Model", not caliber marked.

The rest are 3rd versions; ".455 MkII - 2nd Model":
22425 not cal marked.
27465 Is this one caliber marked on barrel?
B33498 & B59365 - the B is for blue finish and not part of the serial #. These two should be caliber marked.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:41 AM
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Default Second Mod. .455

Hondo, I have another .455 for your information. It's a second model, number 21273 shipped to the Canadian Government in Ottawa on October 14, 1915. It's in very good shape and unmessed with. A bit of blue missing but about 90 %. It is marked .455 on the left side of the barrel. It is in almost new shape! If you need pictures will see if I can get my son to help me send you some. Best regards, John.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldenCaulk View Post
Triple Lock, SN: 3240, All original finish, No caliber marking, tons of British proofs so definitely military, also has what looks to be "OFL" marked on the butt of the left grip panel. Any idea what that might mean?

S&W Triple Lock - Album on Imgur

.455 Mark II, SN: 53433, Caliber marked "SMITH & WESSON .455", Crown over C marked on the butt (or maybe it's an O) so I think that makes it Canadian, shows original duller blued finish.

S&W .455 Hand Ejector Mark II - Album on Imgur
Thanks for those two.

3240 is a 2nd version BSR; ".455 MkII - 1st Model". The OFL is almost assuredly the user's initials.

53433 - is a 3rd version BSR; ".455 MkII - 2nd Model". Crown over poorly stamped O on the butt. The # is likely too low to be one of the 14,500 Canadian shipped guns, but only a letter would confirm for sure.
Also all of these Svc revolvers, British and Canadian shipped guns have a shiny finish, not dull.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by merl67 View Post
Triple Lock 2940 no caliber roll mark still in original chambering not modified original finish.
Thank you.

A 2nd version, “455 Mark II Hand Ejector-1st Model” Triple Lock.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjruple View Post
I have a 2nd model, 6 1/2 inch .455, serial 26161, the revolver was imported from Canada back in the 1970's. I do not think it has the caliber marked on the barrel.
It's a ".455 MkII - 2nd Model" 3rd version British Svc Revolver shipped from the USA in 1915.

Are there any British import, military or proof marks on it? It likely came from England to Canada earlier.

It's not likely caliber marked but to add to the study, it would have to be confirmed.

Thank you!
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JMtoolman View Post
Hondo, I have another .455 for your information. It's a second model, number 21273 It is in almost new shape! If you need pictures will see if I can get my son to help me send you some. Best regards, John.
Thank you.

Interesting, #'d amidst and shipped same time as a bunch with no caliber marking.
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Old 05-24-2021, 12:22 PM
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Jim,

Just received a New Century, 455, serial 31. Photos of both sides of the barrel and top. Also butt frame.

Wrong stocks and missing lanyard stud and ring but it is still a Triple Lock

Kevin
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Old 05-24-2021, 02:16 PM
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Cool! It's the lowest # TL .455 I now have in my database!

It's a 2nd variation - “.455 Mark II HE - 1st Model TL” in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to over 5800* shipped 1914-15. Thus creating 67** duplicate serial #s with the 666 1st version in the “.44 HE 1st Model TL” .455 factory conversion serial number range.


Go to post #223, page 5 where I added it to my database, in this thread (updated 5/24/21).
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Old 05-25-2021, 10:29 AM
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...It's a 2nd variation - “.455 Mark II HE - 1st Model TL” in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to over 5800* shipped 1914-15. Thus creating 67** duplicate serial #s with the 666 1st version in the “.44 HE 1st Model TL” .455 factory conversion serial number range.


Go to post #223, page 5 where I added it to my database, in this thread (updated 5/24/21)...
So, guessing it may have been in the October 1914 shipment to Remington UMC? Why R UMC, where they agents for the British procurement process?

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Old 05-25-2021, 10:39 AM
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So, guessing it may have been in the October 1914 shipment to Remington UMC? Why R UMC, where they agents for the British procurement process?

Kevin
Yes, highly likely. Rem-UMC was their agent.
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Old 05-26-2021, 12:33 AM
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Jim, Can't remember if I sent my info to you on my .455 TL.

6 1/2" blue Sn.355 shipped Oct.1914. Has roll mark .455 on right side of barrel. Has been converted by factory to 45Colt, by recessing back of cyl/extractor. Lots of British proofs.

Richard
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Old 05-26-2021, 05:18 AM
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Jim, Can't remember if I sent my info to you on my .455 TL.

6 1/2" blue Sn.355 shipped Oct.1914. Has roll mark .455 on right side of barrel. Has been converted by factory to 45Colt, by recessing back of cyl/extractor. Lots of British proofs.

Richard
Richard,

It shows up in the updated data base on page 5, post 223.

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Old 05-26-2021, 11:53 AM
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66078 shipped July 1916 and marked:

455 HE 2nd Model-img_1645-jpg
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Old 05-26-2021, 01:30 PM
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Thank you.
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:36 PM
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I used to own #43067



which was rollmarked



Just recently picked up #71989



which is also rollmarked



edit: not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but would anyone be able to tell me what the meaning of this stamp is?



full resolution here: https://i.imgur.com/aCeynd1.jpg

Above the grips on the left rear side of the frame, it appears to be a small 4 over a small E over roman numeral II

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Old 05-27-2021, 11:08 AM
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Thank you. Those are unit markings for which unit it was issued to and the British crown stamp. The II stands for the British designation for the 2nd model, Mark II.
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Old 05-27-2021, 11:20 AM
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Y'all shouldn't let the dawg use a S&W as a chew toy.
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Old 05-27-2021, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Thank you. Those are unit markings for which unit it was issued to and the British crown stamp. The II stands for the British designation for the 2nd model, Mark II.

The way I understand those markings from Pate's US Handguns of WWII is the top arrow stamp is called the "broad arrow" and signifies government ownership of the weapon. Below that is the military inspector's mark that usually consists of a crown over a number/letter combination signifying the inspector and his/her location. In the case above, E is for the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield. And finally, the II, as Jim states, is for the 2nd model S&W .455 hand ejector.


Somewhere on the gun there should be a "sold out of service" stamp which is two broad arrows positioned tip to tip. If it is missing, then the gun likely made its way here by a different route than through normal surplus import.
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Old 05-27-2021, 12:37 PM
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If we're talking about the second gun in post #330, it also has the "crown/30" Canadian acceptance mark on the butt.

Since transfer to Canadian service usually happened after acceptance at Enfield and British service, the gun may not have opposing broad arrows; the Canadians didn't usually stamp them when they were surplused.
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Old 05-27-2021, 01:14 PM
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If we're talking about the second gun in post #330, it also has the "crown/30" Canadian acceptance mark on the butt.

Since transfer to Canadian service usually happened after acceptance at Enfield and British service, the gun may not have opposing broad arrows; the Canadians didn't usually stamp them when they were surplused.
Thats the exact kind of info I was interested in - thanks so much! I have a lot of family in Canada so that's a neat connection for sure.
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Old 05-27-2021, 05:25 PM
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455 Hand Ejector 2nd Model Serial # 33764 on butt Roll marked left side of barrel SMITH & WESSON .455. Cylinder shaved for .45 ACP w/ moon clips and barrel cut to 4" Only marks are crossed pendants and broad arrow in Canadian C. Side note: This revolver was given to my mother in late 1953 from a family friend named George Kilgore who carried it through the Korean Conflict as a personal sidearm.
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  #337  
Old 05-28-2021, 03:57 AM
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455 Hand Ejector 2nd Model Serial # 33764 on butt Roll marked left side of barrel SMITH & WESSON .455. Cylinder shaved for .45 ACP w/ moon clips and barrel cut to 4" Only marks are crossed pendants and broad arrow in Canadian C. Side note: This revolver was given to my mother in late 1953 from a family friend named George Kilgore who carried it through the Korean Conflict as a personal sidearm.
As much as I personally like a 4”, 45 ACP, N frame, please be aware that the 45 ACP cartridge is comparable to a proof load in these non heat treated cylinders.

Kevin
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Old 05-28-2021, 01:40 PM
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455 Hand Ejector 2nd Model Serial # 33764 on butt Roll marked left side of barrel SMITH & WESSON .455. Cylinder shaved for .45 ACP w/ moon clips and barrel cut to 4" Only marks are crossed pendants and broad arrow in Canadian C. Side note: This revolver was given to my mother in late 1953 from a family friend named George Kilgore who carried it through the Korean Conflict as a personal sidearm.
I would stick to 45 Auto Rim because they are loaded to 455 pressures (~15,000) and not the ACP pressures of 19-21,000 required to operate the slide of the 1911, it's intended handgun. The S&W Model 1917 that ACP was used in has a heat treated cyl. The 455 does not.

Or if AR doesn't fire reliable (the 455 chamber shoulder is too far down the chamber to headspace on), you can reload ACP brass to 45 AR pressures so you can use the moon clips.
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  #339  
Old 07-10-2021, 10:16 PM
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Default Historical letter for TL sn 5755 - one of 67 .455 TL with SN that w

This was the Triple lock sn 5755 noted earlier to be in the duplicate number range. According to Hondo44 (page 6 post #259) “It is one of the rare 67 .455 Triple Lock #s that was used twice.”
Hondo44 lists 2 ways to tell which revolver category this one is in. On inspection, It is not drilled through the sn and has no military markings, so is likely a category 2.

Just received the Jinks Letter on this one, which talks about the 2 revolvers receiving this sn and agrees it is likely the one in the commercial .455 range.



Pics of the revolver are at post #279 and #280.

Did a search all the numbers 5756 to 5776 on this forum and did not find any of the other revolvers in this shipment documented here. As the letter does not have an address for Colonel E. M. Edwards, not sure if this was a shipment to Canada (where this revolver was recently purchased), the UK or somewhere in the USA. Any info welcome.

Colonel E. M. Edwards does not show up in the “Library and Archives Canada - Personnel Records of the First World War”.
Thanks
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  #340  
Old 07-11-2021, 07:01 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Congratulations!!

Thanks for showing the letter. It's a great letter and actually authenticates both revolvers with duplicated #5755. I waited a long time for one of a pair of the rare duplicates to finally show up and to also be lettered! Now I wait for the Category 1 gun #5755 to show up some day.

By the way, back in your post #280 you pictured the middle lock latch and asked why it's not blued? I don't think you got an answer. It's color case hardened like the hammer and trigger from the factory. And a great indication that it has original finish and has not been refinished!
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  #341  
Old 08-02-2021, 11:02 AM
TheGoldenCaulk TheGoldenCaulk is offline
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Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
53433 - is a 3rd version BSR; ".455 MkII - 2nd Model". Crown over poorly stamped O on the butt. The # is likely too low to be one of the 14,500 Canadian shipped guns, but only a letter would confirm for sure.
I went ahead and got that letter, take a gander. Thanks to the post office, it already has that authentic crumpled look that many old letters have.
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  #342  
Old 08-02-2021, 11:55 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Thank you for sharing the letter! We never know for sure until verified by a letter; well worth it!

Ahh, thank you USPS! You can iron it on a flat surface with the iron set to the lowest heat setting!
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Old 09-13-2021, 02:17 AM
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Hondo44

One more for your list .455, 12646, lettered as, shipped to Bigelow & Co December 6th 1916. British military marked and British commercial proofs.

You have 12996 listed the same as above but this serial number was a typo and the actual serial number we now know is 12496. (12996 may well have been one of the 300 guns in the shipment, but we do not know this for sure.)

Regards

Alan
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  #344  
Old 09-13-2021, 09:46 PM
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Thank you Alan,

Correct, I shouldn't have updated my database with that temporary listing. In this thread, page 5, post #223 has been updated today, 9/13/21.
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Old 09-20-2021, 12:36 AM
AlanDavid AlanDavid is offline
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Hand Ejector First Model caliber .455 12584 was shipped December 1916.Has British ordnance markings. Presumably one of the X300 to Bigelow & Co, London.

Regards

Alan

Last edited by AlanDavid; 09-23-2021 at 04:14 AM. Reason: Forgot s/n
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  #346  
Old 10-05-2021, 11:02 PM
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For anyone that's interested I recently counted up the sales S&W 1st Model .455 HE revolvers made by the Army & Navy Co-operative Stores Society, in 1914 to 1915. I photographed the ledger pages which are held by Glasgow University in Scotland, some years ago.
It came to a much higher figure that I thought; 625 revolvers.

First sales were in December 1914 with most of the sales being in 1915 with the last sales being in August 1915. Only 8 2nd model .455's were sold sporadically in 1916 including at least one second hand one. Obviously after August 1915 The Army & Navy Co-op Stores could not longer get any more .455's to sell in quantity.

As I say I was surprised that the figure of 625 is so high.

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AlanD
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  #347  
Old 10-05-2021, 11:39 PM
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My 2nd model HE, ser. #49,346. Roll marked on left side of barrel for .455. It is stamped Crown/BP and Crown/BV on the barrel, Crown/BV on the frame and the cylinder, but does not have the Mark II stamp at the left rear of the hammer. The grips are not correct. I'd like to find a proper set for it.
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Old 10-06-2021, 02:02 AM
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Does it have a small crown mark with a number under it on the base of the grip?
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  #349  
Old 10-06-2021, 04:48 PM
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For anyone that's interested I recently counted up the sales, [of] S&W 1st Model .455 HE revolvers, made by the Army & Navy Co-operative Stores Society, in 1914 to 1915. I photographed the ledger pages which are held by Glasgow University in Scotland, some years ago.
It came to a much higher figure that I thought; 625 revolvers.

regards AlanD.
Were these commercial sales to the general public?
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Old 10-06-2021, 04:52 PM
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My 2nd model HE, ser. #49,346. Roll marked on left side of barrel for .455. It is stamped Crown/BP and Crown/BV on the barrel, Crown/BV on the frame and the cylinder, but does not have the Mark II stamp at the left rear of the hammer. The grips are not correct. I'd like to find a proper set for it.
Thank you for the information for the database.

From the lack of the MK II stamp and associated stamps in the same location, that is likely a commercially sold example not sold to or used by the military.
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