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  #51  
Old 07-12-2017, 11:28 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 3Persons View Post
Serial number of this TL is 2147.
British proofs and Broad Arrow.
Not .45 long Colt.
Located it in Canada.
Serial number is not drilled though for the Lanayrd ring, it is beside it.
No caliber stamps on either side of the barrel.
I donít know if it is:
1. 44 Hand Ejector-1st Model Triple Lock, 812 in the 44 Spl # series factory converted to 455.
or if it is
2. 455 Hand Ejector-1st Model Triple Lock #1 thru #5461.
Great survey.
thanks
Tom
Tom,

It is not listed in Neal and Jinks pg. 203-205 as one of the 812 .44 1st Models converted to 455. Therefore it is a category 2. TL.

Thank you,
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Old 07-13-2017, 07:48 AM
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Jim,

The difference between mine and Jim Fisher's is mine has the Canadian military C broad arrow. I sprung for a letter and will post again when it comes in.

Bob
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:59 PM
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I have a triple lock, unfortunately converted to .45 Colt, Serial number 5642. It has no caliber marking on the barrel.

Thanks,

Bill




Not bad to be 100 years old.

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Old 07-13-2017, 10:05 PM
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2nd Model SN 12508 had no factory caliber marking and was stamped ".45AP" by whoever did the conversion to .45 ACP/AR. It is no longer in my possession.
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Old 07-14-2017, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WCCPHD View Post
I have a triple lock, unfortunately converted to .45 Colt, Serial number 5642. It has no caliber marking on the barrel.

Thanks,

Bill




Not bad to be 100 years old.

Hi Bill,

That's a gorgeous TL.

Appears to be a commercial model since I don't see a single Brit or Canadian stamping, unless I've missed something.

Is the serial # missing from the rear face of the cyl or the chamber mouths recessed leading to your belief it is a conversion to 45 Colt?
Because if neither of these are in evidence, it begs for a letter; could be a factory 45 Colt TL and quite rare.

It certainly has a lower front sight than the standard 455 which is higher than factory 44s and 45 Colts.
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  #56  
Old 07-14-2017, 06:59 AM
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Jim,

It does have British stamps, but not government owned marks. It began life as a .455 and had the cylinder face shaved to make it a .45 Colt.

I will include some other photos that show the marks and the cylinder face.

I have since found a replacement top screw and removed the hideous "wondersight."








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Old 07-14-2017, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by WCCPHD View Post
Jim,

It does have British stamps, but not government owned marks. It began life as a .455 and had the cylinder face shaved to make it a .45 Colt.

I will include some other photos that show the marks and the cylinder face.

I have since found a replacement top screw and removed the hideous "wondersight."
Ok, I see them now, very nice and discreet.

Oh yeah, great improvement w/o the hideous tacked on sight, albeit some use those and will pay for them.

Appears to be a commercial that entered GB thru civilian channels. It might be one commercially shipped to Wilkinson Sword in England. Or an American distributor and then exported. Sure doesn't look like it went to war. Maybe an officer's purchase since they had to supply their own sidearm.

The serial # however doesn't seem to correspond to any commercial shipments in the books. So a letter would reveal its provenance and be extremely interesting! Letters are currently only taking about 2 weeks.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by WCCPHD View Post
I have a triple lock, unfortunately converted to .45 Colt, Serial number 5642. It has no caliber marking on the barrel.

Thanks,

Bill




Not bad to be 100 years old.

Bill,

Do you know anything about the rear sight on your gun? My guess is that it is aftermarket but period. I haven't seen this on a Triple Lock before.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by red9 View Post
Jim,

The difference between mine and Jim Fisher's is mine has the Canadian military C broad arrow. I sprung for a letter and will post again when it comes in.

Bob
Bob,

Excellent! That should be a very interesting letter!
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  #60  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mrcvs View Post
Bill,

Do you know anything about the rear sight on your gun? My guess is that it is aftermarket but period. I haven't seen this on a Triple Lock before.
Its called a "Wondersight." An add on sight that attaches to the frame by removing the "fifth" screw. I found a replacement screw and removed it. I believe they may still be manufactured. They are sometimes available on ebay.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Ok, I see them now, very nice and discreet.
.......
Appears to be a commercial that entered GB thru civilian channels. It might be one commercially shipped to Wilkinson Sword in England. Or an American distributor and then exported. Sure doesn't look like it went to war. Maybe an officer's purchase since they had to supply their own sidearm.
......
This gun certainly did not formally enter military service, as the required military proofs and acceptance marks are not present. I only see the London proofhouse's view mark (crown over V) and on the barrel the proof mark (crown over GP, a bit mis-struck). As mentioned, an officer's private purchase is always a possibility.
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
This gun certainly did not formally enter military service, as the required military proofs and acceptance marks are not present. I only see the London proofhouse's view mark (crown over V) and on the barrel the proof mark (crown over GP, a bit mis-struck). As mentioned, an officer's private purchase is always a possibility.
The U.K. agent for Smith and Wesson at this time was Chas Osborne & Co, Gunmaker. He had a factory in Birmingham and a retail shop in London. He was friends with Mr Wesson so that's how he became the agent for S&W in the United Kingdom. Chas Osborne went out of business around 1928. S&W were approached by Le Perssone & Co of 99 Cannon Street , London (a wholesaling and agency firm) to become there UK agent but were only prepared to give S&W one or two pages in their catalogue, so S&W said , no thanks. A. G. Parker which went on to become Parker Hale were appointed as the sole UK agents for S&W and remained so up to at least the 1970's.
This being the case I have never understood why Wilkinson Sword Co purchased the surplus 123 .455 revolvers in October 1914. Perhaps Chas Osborne turned the offer down and Wilkinson's picked them up by default?
Unfortunately, the Chas Osborne & Co records appear to be lost, I have put a bit of effort into trying to locate them, but the consensus is they no longer exist - pity.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Ok, I see them now, very nice and discreet.

Oh yeah, great improvement w/o the hideous tacked on sight, albeit some use those and will pay for them.

Appears to be a commercial that entered GB thru civilian channels. It might be one commercially shipped to Wilkinson Sword in England. Or an American distributor and then exported. Sure doesn't look like it went to war. Maybe an officer's purchase since they had to supply their own sidearm.

The serial # however doesn't seem to correspond to any commercial shipments in the books. So a letter would reveal its provenance and be extremely interesting! Letters are currently only taking about 2 weeks.
I asked for a ship date from Roy Jinks and he replied today:

"Bill, .455 H.E. First Model serial 5642 is one of the rare commercial shipments. It was shipped in April 1915. I hope that this helps. Roy "

You were correct it was a commercial shipment.

I am curious if this adds to the collectibility of the gun, particularly since it was modified to .45 Colt.

Bill
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  #64  
Old 07-19-2017, 09:04 PM
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Bill,

Thank you (and thank you Roy). The April 1915 ship date for 5642 gives us one more data point.

The dilemma: What we still don't know is which category 455 #5624 is from?

A Category 1. "44 1st Model TL" in the 44 serial range converted to 455 at the factory per Neil & Jinks identifies the 146 commercials from this category by serial #s and they shipped Oct I, 1914 and Jan I 1918. 5624 is not one of those numbers.

A category 2. "455 1st model TL" in the British serial # range 1 to #5461 [H of S&W pg. 201] made 1914-15 does not include 5624 which is too high for that range.

A category 3.A. "455 2nd model" in the range of 5624 is not a TL, unless one TL slipped thru with 2nd Model serial #. These shipped 1915 to 1917.

A category 3.B. 691 TLs only known to be assembled from April to Oct of 1916 in the 12 - 14,XXX serial range, and way too high for 5624. 345 sold commercially.

So once again we look to category 0. "Rare misc. early commercial production 44 TL 1st Models chambered in .455."
Including a pre Brit Contract special order TL subset of 25 standard .44 1st Model TLs in the .44 serial # range chambered in .455 with 5” barrels, shipped Nov. 1, 1912. Thx to Jim Fisher for bringing these to our attention and sharing documentation! See #5751 below.
A Scarce 5 Inch Triple lock shipped to Canada in April of 1915
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  #65  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Bill,

Thank you (and thank you Roy). The April 1915 ship date for 5642 gives us one more data point.

The dilemma: What we still don't know is which category 455 #5624 is from?

A Category 1. "44 1st Model TL" in the 44 serial range converted to 455 at the factory per Neil & Jinks identifies the 146 commercials from this category by serial #s and they shipped Oct I, 1914 and Jan I 1918. 5624 is not one of those numbers.

A category 2. "455 1st model TL" in the British serial # range 1 to #5461 [H of S&W pg. 201] made 1914-15 does not include 5624 which is too high for that range.

A category 3.A. "455 2nd model" in the range of 5624 is not a TL, unless one TL slipped thru with 2nd Model serial #. These shipped 1915 to 1917.

A category 3.B. 691 TLs only known to be assembled from April to Oct of 1916 in the 12 - 14,XXX serial range, and way too high for 5624. 345 sold commercially.

So once again we look to category 0. "Rare misc. early individually produced commercial 44 TL 1st models chambered in .455." as the most likely category of production for 5624. Perhaps an over-run from the special order of 25 5" barreled 455 TLs identified by Jim Fisher, and also numbered in the 44 Spl TL serial range, but with a standard 6 1/2" barrel. Or just an individually ordered 455.
Thanks Jim,

I believe a letter is in order here.

Bill
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Old 07-20-2017, 12:29 PM
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I have TL #1549, no caliber markings
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:03 AM
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I've really been enjoying this thread Hondo, all this HE Mk II talk is making me think, maybe I need another one??
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  #68  
Old 07-23-2017, 07:26 AM
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This is one of the best threads on the forum.

Regards

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Old 07-28-2017, 08:59 AM
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Just received the letter on #5788. It letters as a commercial shipped to Hurd & Co, like Jim Fisher's, but on June 4, 1915. Part of a shipment of 5 guns. Didn't catch the mistake before, but the barrel is 6.5". So we have a Canadian military marked shipped commercially. Could the military have required the owners of personal guns to submit them for approval to carry?

Great survey with a lot of work on your part and a lot of participation by the Forum.

Bob
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Old 07-28-2017, 10:05 AM
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Default My .455

Here's my .455 Mark II Hand Ejector. Not mint at all. S/N is 30414.

Letter shows it being shipped Dec. 16, 1915 to Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge in NY, agents for the British government.

British military markings, though carried in the conflict by an officer (field promotion) in the Canadian Engineers.



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Old 07-28-2017, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red9 View Post
Just received the letter on #5788. It letters as a commercial shipped to Hurd & Co, like Jim Fisher's, but on June 4, 1915. Part of a shipment of 5 guns. Didn't catch the mistake before, but the barrel is 6.5". So we have a Canadian military marked shipped commercially. Could the military have required the owners of personal guns to submit them for approval to carry?

Great survey with a lot of work on your part and a lot of participation by the Forum.

Bob
Hi Bob,

Thanks very much for the follow information on your #5788. The order of 5 guns in the shipment is also very helpful.

I'm not that versed on the military markings but some here are.


The variations of the British Service revolver stampings seem almost endless.

These 455s can have Import, Proof, and Export stamps; just one or up to all three. The stamps also vary with the period in which they were done due to British changes in stamping requirements over the years, and whether or not they moved thru official channels.

We also find 455 revolvers which were not initially sold to the British military, but originally sold on the commercial market and only later entered military service.

These links are to threads that will help you with the various non-factory stampings on your 455:

Google images and definitions of British marks:
british proof marks - Bing images


Identify Hand Ejector Birmingham Marks - in the S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 section of Smith & Wesson Forum. This thread is located at:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...-new-post.html
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Old 07-28-2017, 08:09 PM
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The .455 was known as an excellent stopper in it's day.

I wouldn't hesitate to use that gun for nightstand use.
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:30 AM
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Is it possible to determine the number of .455 triple lock revolvers and .455 second model revolvers that were made for commercial sale and not for military orders for the UK, Canada?

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Old 07-30-2017, 02:00 AM
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ONLY COMMERCIAL 455 TLs AND 2nd MODELS

1. Pre Brit contract ".44 Hand Ejector 1st Model" TLs chambered in 455 in the 44 HE serial # series:

Likely less than 100.


2. During Brit Military purchase production era ".44 Hand Ejector 1st Model" TLs converted to 455 in the 44 HE serial # series:

146 + 691*

*It is believed that an unknown amount of the 691 sold on the commercial market were then purchased by a British purchasing agent and made their way across the big pond that manner, to get all stamped up for eventual military use.


3. "455 Mk II Hand Ejector 1st Model" TLs:

NONE


4. "455 Mk II Hand Ejector 2nd Model":

1105* 2nd Models were released for commercial sales in the US, shipped Dec 1917 to Shapleigh Hardware in St. Louis [S&W, N&J pg. 216]. Several of these were then purchased by various US home guard units for use in the US.

* Not included in this number are 739 "455 Mk II Hand Ejector 2nd Model" revolvers chambered in 45 Colt presumably for the RCMP, and not part of the 14,500 Canadian military 455 Mk II purchases.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:51 AM
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Back to the top.
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Old 08-03-2017, 02:20 PM
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I have just seen .455" TL S/N 2013. It has no calibre markings and is in extremely good condition. The only non-factory markings are London commercial proof stamps. Is this normal for British contract TLs?

Peter
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Old 08-03-2017, 02:59 PM
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Maybe for those guns outside the US. Most of the ones we see over here have been modified for .45 Colt or .45 ACP.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
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Maybe for those guns outside the US. Most of the ones we see over here have been modified for .45 Colt or .45 ACP.
What I should have asked is: did the TLs have British military inspection and/or proof markings, as did the second (Mark II) model Hand Ejectors?

Peter
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:22 AM
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Jim,

I own:

four Triple-Locks in .455 and three 2nd Modells in .455:

T-Locks:
# 2373 found in Switzerland some weeks ago and I'm still working on the export papers -no Caliber markings-
# 3628 converted to .45LC (recessed perfect work) -no Caliber markings-
# 4534 -no Caliber markings-
# 7827 -from the .44 Spl run converted to .455 -no Caliber markings-

2nd Modell .455
# 29198 -with Caliber markings-
# 31782 converted to 45 ACP (rearside of the Cylinder turned off) -with Caliber markings-
# 66549 -with Caliber markings-


Best regards from Germany

Paul SWCA 1354

ps. I also have two T-Locks in .44 Spl and some 2nd and 3rd Modells in .44 Spl, if you need serial numbers and barrel length send an email.
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PJGP View Post
What I should have asked is: did the TLs have British military inspection and/or proof markings, as did the second (Mark II) model Hand Ejectors?

Peter
Yes they do.

The variations of the British Service revolver stampings seem almost endless.

The 455s can have Import, Proof, and Export stamps; just one or up to all three. The export stamps especially vary with the period in which they were done due to British changes in stamping requirements over the years, and when the guns were exported from the UK; also whether or not they moved thru official channels.

We also find 455 revolvers which were not initially sold to the British military, but originally sold on the commercial market and only later entered military service and another reason for varied stampings.
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by regmag-621 View Post
Jim,

I own:

four Triple-Locks in .455 and three 2nd Modells in .455:

T-Locks:
# 2373 found in Switzerland some weeks ago and I'm still working on the export papers -no Caliber markings-
# 3628 converted to .45LC (recessed perfect work) -no Caliber markings-
# 4534 -no Caliber markings-
# 7827 -from the .44 Spl run converted to .455 -no Caliber markings-

2nd Modell .455
# 29198 -with Caliber markings-
# 31782 converted to 45 ACP (rearside of the Cylinder turned off) -with Caliber markings-
# 66549 -with Caliber markings-


Best regards from Germany

Paul SWCA 1354

ps. I also have two T-Locks in .44 Spl and some 2nd and 3rd Modells in .44 Spl, if you need serial numbers and barrel length send an email.
Thx Paul!

That just increased my database sample by ~ 20%. I always wondered where all those tens of thousands of 455s ended up. We haven't seen near that # come back across the big pond. They must be all over Europe.
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:46 AM
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There is mention in this thread about 2nd models in 45 Colt caliber.
David Carroll had one of these at the Kansas City show last weekend.
the gun was in 74000 serial number range and was in near new shape and priced accordingly.
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:17 PM
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Did you happen to notice if it had Canadian and/or RCMP stamps?
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:43 PM
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I looked it over good no extra marks no barrel markings
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:04 PM
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All I can add that may pertain to that gun is this:

Brit Contract version 3.A. “.455 Mark II HE - 2nd Model” (sans extractor barrel shroud and 3rd lock), but with slightly larger cylinder/frame window dimensions from versions 1. the ".44 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" factory converted to .455, and 2. the ".455 HE 1st Model TL" produced in .455.

The 2nd Model continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range beginning #5462 to #74755, shipped 1915-17.

By Feb 1916 724* were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, presumed for the RCMP [H of S&W, pg. 203].

Another 15** in 45 Colt were sold commercially in 1916.

The Canadian military also bought 14,500 .455 2nd Models [H of S&W, pg. 203].

And 1105 2nd Models were released for commercial sales in the US, shipped Dec 1917 to Shapleigh Hardware in St. Louis [S&W, N&J pg. 216].


*””Roy's comments on that model might be helpful here [regarding an original Factory .45 Colt # 747xx that shipped on May 4, 1917]: "Between April and June 1917 Smith & Wesson manufactured 700 units of 2nd Models that are listed in the manufacturing records as .45 Colt caliber. Unfortunately the manufacturing records did not record serial numbers. The shipping records for this model list, in this same time period, the sale of 703 units, but the shipping records do not list the caliber. I am positive that the sale of these 703 units are the .45 Colt listed in the manufacturing records. The extra 3 units could have been manufactured from revolvers that had already been assembled. ”Roy Jinks” Bob (Bettis1)

“The 727 [724]number could be correct but there have only been a small number that are from this shipment, less than 20 documented.” Jim Fisher ‘bmg60’
2nd Model Hand Ejector - 45 LC?

**“The run of 15 with consecutive serial numbers, made in 1916 are all commercial, #46748 from that range is documented. There is no cal markings on this gun and the only other markings are the standard. Roy had to research the build records to find them because the shipping records didn’t list the Cal. The front sights on these factory chambered for.45 Colt is a little higher [than 455 revolvers]. This is the only one of the 15 that is known. Roy said he guessed the other 14 were for a shipment to some other country.” Jim Fisher ‘bmg60’ 2nd Model Hand Ejector - 45 LC?
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:17 PM
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TL .455 #3699 not caliber marked. Still in orig .455 configuration. x-pennants, in out broad arrows..

2nd model, #35064 roll marked .455 on barrel Canadian C circle arrow marked

2nd model, #39738 roll marked .455 on barrel x-pennants, in out broad arrows..
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Old 08-06-2017, 08:15 PM
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Thank you all. Here's an update of what we have so far:

Cal stamping of British contract and commercial .455s categorized by the following production models:

0. "Rare misc. early commercial production 44 TL 1st Models chambered in .455."
Including a pre Brit Contract special order TL subset of 25 standard .44 1st Model TLs in the .44 serial # range chambered in .45 Eley with 5” barrels, shipped Nov. 1, 1912. Thx to Jim Fisher for bringing these to our attention and sharing documentation! See #5751 below.
A Scarce 5 Inch Triple lock shipped to Canada in April of 1915

5642 – NOT CAL STAMPED shipped April 1915
5724 - NOT CAL STAMPED 455 single gun shipment April 28,1915, from Canada
5751 - Caliber is 45 Eley, shipped in 1912 in a commercial order of 25, 5” guns to H. Robitsek, Canada
5788 - NOT CAL STAMPED; Canadian 6 1/2” barrel shipped June 4, 1915 in an order of 5 to Hurd & Co.
7827 - NOT CAL STAMPED in Germany

1. “44 Hand Ejector-1st Model Triple Lock”, 812 (military & commercially sold) in the 44 Spl # series factory converted to 455.


2. “455 Hand Ejector-1st Model Triple Lock” #1 thru #5461.

358 – NOT CAL MARKED
1911 – NOT CAL MARKED, not even Smith & Wesson.
1203 – NOT CAL MARKED
1549 – NOT CAL MARKED
2013 – NOT CAL MARKED
2147 - NOT CAL STAMPED, serial # not drilled thru for Lanyard, from Canada
2373 - NOT CAL STAMPED from Switzerland, in Germany
3147 - stamped on right hand side of barrel
3628 - NOT CAL STAMPED converted to .45LC (recessed conversion)
3699 – NOT CAL MARKED, orig .455 configuration. x-pennants, in & out broad arrows
3863 – NOT CAL STAMPED
3932 - NOT CAL STAMPED
4324 - NOT CAL STAMPED
4534 - NOT CAL STAMPED in Germany
5105 - NOT CAL STAMPED


3. A. “455 Hand Ejector-2nd Model” #5462 thru 74755.

7766 – NO CAL STAMP. Alan [murphydog]
10663 - NO CAL MARKING, shipped to Winch for ammo testing
12448 – NO CAL MARK on barrel
12508 – NO FACTORY CAL MARK, converted to45 ACP/RR, stamped ".45AP"
15543 – NO CAL MARK
17320 - marked 455 left side
26007 – NO CAL STAMP
29198 - caliber marked, in Germany
29515 - left side barrel is marked SMITH & WESSON .455., shipped in December of 1915
29954 - stamped 455, British acceptance stamps and, I think, Australian unit stamp.
30414 – cal marked 455 shipped Dec. 16, 1915 to Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge in NY
31138 – stamped left hand side
31739 - marked 455 left side
31782 - caliber marked, converted to 45 ACP Cylinder faced off, in Germany
35064 - roll marked .455 on barrel Canadian C circle arrow marked
35711 - roll marked .455 on L side of bbl, shipped on Jan 6, 1916
37923 - roll marked on left side of barrel
39738 - roll marked .455 on barrel x-pennants, in & out broad arrows
40096 - marked .455
43067 - marked .455. on left side of the barrel
46748 – UNMARKED factory 45 Colt from the group of 15
45484 - roll marked on left side of barrel
52908 - shipped April 1916 455 STAMPED. All three went to England.
53468 - marked .455 on LS of barrel.
56603 - marked .455 left side
57387 - NO MARKINGS shipped to Rem for Great Britain
58547 - 455 stamped. shipped May 1916 “
59045 - 455 stamped. shipped May 1916 “
61801 – NOT CAL MARKED
62941 - marked 455 LH Side
63279 - Smith and Wesson .455. on left side
66549 - caliber marked, in Germany
66573 - marked SMITH & WESSON .455.
66860 - 455 marking, shipped to Shapleigh Hardware Dec 1917
67691 - stamped .455 (this gun was one of the coml guns shipped to Shapleigh Hardware in December 1917)
73778 - original .455. rollmark left side
74744 - UNMARKED factory 45 Colt, one of the 724 shipped May 4, 1917 to the Phelps Dodge Mining Co.


3. B.“44 Hand Ejector-1st Model Triple Lock” 691 assembled at the end of the British contract but sold on the commercial market 1916-17, built from remaining TL frames and numbered in the 44 Spl # series ~ 12 – 14,XXX range.

12493 - Left side of barrel marked Smith & Wesson 455
12618 - stamped .455 (British proofs)
12742 – stamped, likely one of the 691 "Spare Parts" TL's produced in 1916 and possibly one of 325 shipped to Shapleigh Hardware on December 29, 1917.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:49 AM
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Jim,
I just won a 2nd model at Gunbroker. Looks like serial 56050 with left side of barrel market Smith & Wesson 455. British in and out of service marks etc. Will post more as soon as I take delivery.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:08 PM
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Hello Jim, bought myself another one. This one has had the back of the cylinder turned down for .45 acp or auto rim. Left side of barrel has smith & wesson, but no cartridge stamp. To the left of that, (toward muzzle), is faintly and poorly, stamped 45 AR. Pretty sure it isn't factory. I now have three of these revolvers, and I am following your thread with great interest.
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by horthog52 View Post
Hello Jim, bought myself another one. This one has had the back of the cylinder turned down for .45 acp or auto rim. Left side of barrel has smith & wesson, but no cartridge stamp. To the left of that, (toward muzzle), is faintly and poorly, stamped 45 AR. Pretty sure it isn't factory. I now have three of these revolvers, and I am following your thread with great interest.
Thank you. Do you have a serial or partial #?
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:56 PM
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Default Duh!

I forgot the most important part. Serial # 14337
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Old 08-17-2017, 08:28 PM
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Thanks, just double checking, a 2nd model not a TL, correct?
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:22 PM
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That is correct.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:25 PM
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Hondo

I have got the 2nd model I recently purchase in hand. Kind of interesting. Excellent shape and retains very nice blue and all letters and markings very sharp, perfect screw heads etc. Extremely clean bore and chambers. Has not been reamed, inside chambers still dark blue and almost no wear on recoil shield or ejector rod. Don't think very many rounds been through this one. It does have a few small light scratches and minor dings here and there. Grip show very little wear but a few minor dings. Not perfect, but in great shape for a 100 year old revolver. I am a happy camper with this one.

Anyway the Markings. S&W .455. on Left side of barrel. 2 lines on top of barrel address and patent dates. crossed pennants on rear of cylinder face and on leftt side of frame where barrel goes through. Broad in and out of service arrows on yoke. On frame above grip a small arrow pointing up then under that some thing I can't make out possibly a crown then under that a E then under that II, S&W trade mark on side plated.
Nicely stamped on bottom of left grip is Holiver Seal. Serial number on butt, cylinder face, back of yoke and barrel is 56050. Inside yoke cut and on yoke is stamped 456 which I assume is an assemblers number. No other markings.

Did a search for Holiver Seal, but came up empty.

Pictures tomorrow when I get light box setup and pick up the sweet 5 screw 4" K22 that my FFL guy showed me when I picked this up.

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Old 08-24-2017, 12:46 AM
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Jim: I have 2nd model #31776. LH side of barrel roll marked "Smith & Wesson .455. Brit acceptance stamp on knuckle of frame, crossed pennants on frame and rear of cylinder, as well as in and out broad arrows. The gun shows no sign of being fired, as the breech face and front of the cylinder show no powder rings or wear to the bluing. Many small dings and scratches in the finish due to rough handling during shipment.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:53 PM
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Jim 56050 is the correct number for the 455 2nd model I just picked up
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:26 PM
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Jim,

Always happy to help. I have the following:

Mark II, 1st Triple-Lock .455 SN: 930 cylinder measures 1+5/8", Barrel top: 2 line address newest date Feb '06
no roll stamps what so ever on sides of barrel, (no S&W, no caliber marking), no SN inside recess for ejector rod on barrel.
Cylinder SN: 930 matches

Mark II, 2nd, .455 SN: 27536, cylinder also measures 1+5/8". Barrel Top: 2 line address newest date Feb '06
Left side of Barrel "SMITH & WESSON .455" all nos. match

1+5/8" is by steel tape rule not micrometer so figure nominal (+/-) variance. If you need me to mic the cylinders, just ask.

Both are in original .455 configuration, properly "proofed".

Chamfers inside cylinders are visibly pronounced at proper depth, nice & shiny inside chambers.

Triple lock is at least a 90%+, 2nd Model is at least 95%+ condition.

Both have been in the family collection at least 20 years likely closer to 30 years.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:00 PM
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Sal,

Thx. Are these cartridge marked on the barrel?
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:17 PM
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Sal,

Thx. Are these cartridge marked on the barrel?
Jim, perhaps I was a bit long-winded in my prior post, however ... as posted ... the Triple lock #930 is NOT caliber marked nor are there any markings, what so ever, on the right or left barrel sides. Also, no serial number in the ejector rod recess area of the barrel where you would expect the SN to be but barrel appears original blue matching the rest of the finish on the revolver. On the top side of the barrel, it has a 2 line address, roll stamp, ending with the newest patent date of Feb '06.

the Mark II 2nd Model also has a 2 line barrel address on top, with the newest patent date of Feb '06, also. This one (Mark II 2nd, .455 HE 2nd) "is" marked "SMITH & WESSON .455" on the left side of the barrel. The entire scroll here (left side of barrel), phrased: "SMITH & WESSON .455" is not centered mid-barrel as might be expected, rather, it is much off centered toward the rear, ending up just a few millimeters before the barrel starts to flare wider.

Anything you need, Email me is best. I can get around to pix if you need just may take me a day or two to make time to photograph them.
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Old 08-25-2017, 01:11 AM
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My apologies, I must have stared at the eclipse too long w/o glasses!
Sorry, I tried to double check and STILL missed both of them! There's a short between eyeballs and brain.

Two beauties Sal, thanks very much!
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