.455 British Svc Revolver Research Thread

[Stumpnov]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Thank you for your submittal. I could not see the entire serial # on the butt. Looks like 470?0. Can you please confirm?

Sorry, missed this before. 47030.

[Mike4849]

SER #--32589

I bought this as a shooter rather than a collector.
I believe it to be a heavily modified .455 HE Model II.
It is now .45 LC--work was expertly done and the action is SLICK.
I have asked for the letter just for information.

44-2.JPG

[Wiregrassguy]

Mike, Jim also wants:

A serial # (or partial) would be very helpful as well as whether or not it's caliber roll marked on the barrel.

[41 fan]

I have #27188 and it is caliber marked. Dean

[Hondo44]

Thank you Dean.

[SMLE15]

Hello, I am a new member of the S&W forum and first time forum user. I live in Australia and have just recently purchased at auction a S&W 1st Model .455cal revolver. It is supposed to be from the 1915 WW1 Gallipoli battlefield and used by a know Australian Lieutenant, yet a friend tells me it may actually be a 1917 revolver judging by its serial number #46837. Can anybody please help me identify what year of manufacture this pistol would have been? Regards, Matt

[frankynohankypanky]

SMLE15, your revolver is a Smith & Wesson 2nd Model Hand Ejector. This gun is not a 1st Model as stated in the auction catalogue, nor is it a 1917.
I did not attend the auction but I do have the catalogue and have also looked at the photograph on line. If any Forum members want to look at this go to Australian Arms Auctions Oct 2017 sale and look for lot 482. How anyone can describe this gun as in good working order and very good condition, as the description states, I can't fathom. It has been destroyed by the sawcut in the barrel. This is an example of the poor descriptions that are so common with AAA.
The people who destroy guns like this are, to put it mildly, philistines. If I stated my true opinion my intemperate language would have me thrown off the Forum.

Frank S.

[SMLE15]

Thanks Frank, any idea of the year of manufacture?

Regards, Matt

[Hondo44]

Matt, welcome to the forum!

Yes a "455 Hand Ejector - 2nd Model" shipped in the 1st quarter of 1916.

Yeah, describing it as "o/w gwo" (otherwise good working order). No kidding; a pretty sneaky way of describing it as NOT SHOOTABLE!!!

What a sacrilege since one could still shoot it but with a huge sacrifice in velocity and no one better be standing to the right of it!

[SMLE15]

Hi Jim, thanks for the warm welcome. I have lover S&W since the old Dirty Harry films in the 70's/80's and was more very impressed with a documentary about the company's beginnings. Thank you fo the information, bit sad about it not being a 1915 revolver and yes, terrible shame that somebody had 'deactivated it'. Regards, Matt

[2LtCal]

Hi Jim
I have a 455 MKII HE serial 20583. British acceptance and crossed pendants. Left side of barrel "Smith&Wesson" no caliber.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by 2LtCal

Hi Jim
I have a 455 MKII HE serial 20583. British acceptance and crossed pendants. Left side of barrel "Smith&Wesson" no caliber.

Thank you!

[delta-419]

Jim, don't know if you are still collecting MKII data but here goes. I came across a S&W .455 last week on GB and did an impulse bid as the gun which was going thru its 3rd or 4th time around without any bids. I bid the low minimum and it came in today. All I can say is WOW!!! BINGO!!! It is a keeper. I will post photos later this week on a separate thread. For your study it is serial number30783 and is marked .455. Hope this helps!

[Hondo44]

Yes I am.

Thanks for the new data.

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by Mike4849

SER #--32589

I bought this as a shooter rather than a collector.
I believe it to be a heavily modified .455 HE Model II.
It is now .45 LC--work was expertly done and the action is SLICK.
I have asked for the letter just for information.

Attachment 307983

Was the gunsmith here a guy named Matthews, in California? Looks like his style.

[4306]

I have S/N 26211, no caliber markings, martial stamps, in .455.

[4306]

Triple Lock, S/N 1763, British proof marks, barrel restamped 45 A/R, (will not accept .45 Auto Rim-45 Colt will chamber).

[Hondo44]

Thank you!

A type 2. “455 Hand Ejector-1st Model Triple Lock”, one of the #1 thru #5461.

[Monty05]

Hi.... i have three 2nd model HE's . All 6 1/2 "

# 20111 Marked "Smith & Wesson" on left of barrel. No calibre marking. British marked.

# 47456 marked " Smith & Wesson .455. " on left of barrel. British marked and stamped out of service.

# 62589 marked "Smith & Wesson .455." on left of barrel. no markings but Crown and 30 on butt.

Cheers and thanks for your work, Roger

[AlanDavid]

Great information.
For those that are not aware the crown with 30 under it is a Canadian inspection mark.
Regards

AlanD
Sydney

[W.C. Morton]

2nd Model. #16872. Shipped to Remington on 09/23/1915. No caliber mark. Enfield acceptance mark behind cylinder latch. Crossed pennants below barrel pin on L/S frame. Thankfully never converted to .45 Colt or ACP. No unit marks. Sent to me from England twenty years ago. Excellent condition. Good shooter.

[dobk63]

I have serial number 5218 1st Model TL still in .455. It has no barrel markings other than the roll mark on top. Has period British commercial proofs, small Crown/GP and Crown/V in appropriate places. No military markings. Letter says shipped to Rem/UMC on Jan. 21, 1915.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by Monty05

Hi.... i have three 2nd model HE's . All 6 1/2 "

# 20111 Marked "Smith & Wesson" on left of barrel. No calibre marking. British marked.

# 47456 marked " Smith & Wesson .455. " on left of barrel. British marked and stamped out of service.

# 62589 marked "Smith & Wesson .455." on left of barrel. no markings but Crown and 30 on butt.

Cheers and thanks for your work, Roger

Thank you Roger

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by W.C. Morton

2nd Model. #16872. Shipped to Remington on 09/23/1915. No caliber mark. Enfield acceptance mark behind cylinder latch. Crossed pennants below barrel pin on L/S frame. Thankfully never converted to .45 Colt or ACP. No unit marks. Sent to me from England twenty years ago. Excellent condition. Good shooter.

Thank you WC!

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by dobk63

I have serial number 5218 1st Model TL still in .455. It has no barrel markings other than the roll mark on top. Has period British commercial proofs, small Crown/GP an Crown/V in appropriate places. No military markings. Letter says shipped to Rem/UMC on Jan. 21, 1915.

Beautiful!

Thank you.

[glowe]

Any updated list you can share? We are curious about what you are finding out.

[handejector]

455-2nd
46058
All original
HAS caliber Mark
Brit acceptance mark. No other Brit marks.
Pics attached.

[Hondo44]

See post #1 for the latest databank update.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by handejector

455-2nd
46058
All original
HAS caliber Mark
Brit acceptance mark. No other Brit marks.
Pics attached.

Thx Lee, added to list.

[glowe]

Thanks for the update Jim, but I see your work is never done. There are 101 - 455s in the SWCA database and you already have 114 examples.

[bracebeemer]

Jim,i’m not sure if you have my Mark ll in your data base. It was shipped to Ottawa on July 8th 1916 .Serial# 70000. Smith &Wesson .455 on left side of barrel. As an aside, it has I.Miller scratched into the bottom of grip. It remains in .455 cal. Bill

[Hondo44]

Thank you, I know I don't have yours, I wouldn't forget that serial #.

[banjoguy]

2nd Model HE #42432, Caliber IS marked on the left side

British proofs (Broad arrow, ??, E, II) & crossed pennants on the left side. Crossed pennants between one of the chambers. No other unique marks. Reblued, but still 455.



The holster it came in is modified. I can put the name scratched into the holster (American guy in 12th Canadian MG Company) at a very specific location at Paaschendaele on the night of Oct 27, 1917. Not sure if the holster is original to the gun but it's certainly been at home there for a long long time.

[Hondo44]

Banjoguy,

Thank you!

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum, banjoguy.

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!

[mrcvs]

Here's one to add:

No 2703, No markings on barrel other than address and British Proofmarks. Shipped 16 Dec 1914 and delivered to Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co, NYC, agents for the British Government.

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by Mike4849

SER #--32589

I bought this as a shooter rather than a collector.
I believe it to be a heavily modified .455 HE Model II.
It is now .45 LC--work was expertly done and the action is SLICK.
I have asked for the letter just for information.

Attachment 307983

I think this is the work of a gunsmith named George Matthews, in California. I believe he's now deceased.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Here's one to add:

No 2703, No markings on barrel other than address and British Proofmarks. Shipped 16 Dec 1914 and delivered to Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co, NYC, agents for the British Government.

mrcvs, Thankyou!

[S&W ucla]

1st model 455 NO caliber or S&W rollmark. #4871 Proofs as shown in pic. Any clue what "D-6-Q.B." stands for?

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by S&W ucla

1st model 455 NO caliber or S&W rollmark. #4871 Proofs as shown in pic. Any clue what "D-6-Q.B." stands for?

S&W ucla,

Thank you! Sorry don't know what the D-6-QB is other than some unit designation or Quartermaster inventory #.

Here's two thread links to click on and ask about the marking:

british proof marks - Bing images

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...-new-post.html

[47magnum]

Hi
I have ser# 40380
left side of barrel SMITH & WESSON .455.
top of barrel has patent marking stamp 2 lines
SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS U.S.A.
PATENTED OCT.8,1901 DEC.17,1901 FEB.6,1906
on the underside of barrel in the flat there is a mark about 3/8" before the serial# I can't make out kind of looks like a B

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum.

It is a B, used on pre war Hand Ejectors to indicate the original finish is blue. An N or no letter indicates an original nickeled gun.

Thx for the info on your 2nd Model 455.

[Hondo44]

See post #1 for the latest databank update.

[walter o]

I have a triple lock S/N3349 no cal.marks in .455 .acceptance marks =infield small arms and broad arrow .Also crossed pendants .top of barrel
has patent dates .S/N on butt ,lanyard fitting not through it

[DCWilson]

Jim, just another vote of thanks for undertaking this project and keeping it current.

Your running summary makes 73778 sound better than it is. Just to be clear, the revolver is not original in any fundamental sense, though it does still carry an original .455 rollmark on the barrel. Modification details are reported in post 18 on page 1; in quick summary, it has been rechambered to .45 Colt (with a possible intermediate stop at .45 S&W/Schofield) and given Micro adjustable sights. This revolver went under the knife more than once to end up looking the way it does now.

[JMtoolman]

Sir, would like to add my triple lock to your numbers.
#15055
.455. on left side of barrel
.455 Eley chambers, not .455 Mark 11
Would like to know when it shipped.
Thanks, J.M.

[Hondo44]

JM,

All British contract Revolvers are chambered for the 455 Mk I and Mk II and Webley. S&W refers to the cartridge as Mk II only because that was the intended cartridge for the gun. But the brits wanted the longer chambers for the Mk I in case of Mk II ammo shortages.

The Brits called and stamped the 455 2nd models Mk II.

Your serial # is a bit of an anomaly: does it have British proof stamps?

[deadin]

Group 3.A. Serial 56167. Marked Smith & Wesson .455 left side of barrel. Standard markings, crossed flags and Enfield marks on left frame knuckle. There are no commercial marks and oddly(?), no broad arrow property and/or release marks... (-><-) (Other than the little broad arrow that is part of the Enfield acceptance mark.)
Does this indicate the gun went to somewhere other than the War Department?

[Hondo44]

Hi Dean,

Thx for that 2nd Model 455 (3A) version.

I've never seen any with "Commercial marks", only factory and military marks; so not sure I know what you mean.

S&W contract British service revolvers can have just import marks, proof marks, export marks, only 2 of those or all three. Just depends on how they made the journey.

An example of an exception is it was purchased by the citizens acquisition committee from a US commercial source and sent over instead of going from S&W to Rem UMC, and then overseas.

If they don't have export marks, they came home thru unofficial channels such as in a GI duffle bag.