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Old 07-10-2017, 12:46 AM
Tom 3Persons Tom 3Persons is offline
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Default Triple lock Identification

I have acquired what I believe to be a .44 Hand Ejector 1st Model in .455 (AKA Triple Lock & New Century).
I understand that these were only manufactured between 1908 and 1915, for a total of 15,376 revolvers, a stock that sold out completely by 1917. Also that there were 3 Versions of Hand Ejectors chambered in .455 Mk II for the British. Can you help:
- Identify which version this was
- put a year of manf on it or year of shipping
- comment on rarity
- collectors desirability

Description:
FIXED SIGHTS
BROAD ARROW Stamp
Double Broad Arrow SOLD OUT OF SERVICE MARKED
Crossed flags proof mark
LANYARD RING
BARREL LENGTH: 6 1/2"
SN 2147 by lanyard ring
Matching sn on cylinder and crossed flag proof
Number under yoke not matching sn.
No caliber stamped on either left or right side of barrel
Last PAT'D date on top of barrel looks to be Feb 6, 06 (but I am not sure about the 06, might be 08.)
Let me know if you need anything else and thanks for looking.
Thanks
Tom
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Triple lock Identification-s-w-triple-lock-left-side-jpg   Triple lock Identification-s-w-triple-lock-right-side-jpg   Triple lock Identification-fullsizerender-2-jpg   Triple lock Identification-img_0434-jpg   Triple lock Identification-fullsizerender-1-jpg  

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  #2  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:52 AM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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Welcome to the Forum.

I'm guessing 1914 production. The grips look pretty good. Has it been re-chambered to .45 Colt?
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Last edited by Muley Gil; 07-10-2017 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:58 AM
iskra iskra is offline
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Yup! A First Model. ID by serial number as well as the defining middle cylinder locking mechanism visible from the right side photo view. Leaving remaining questions to others likely better informed on this Brit subspecies. Hopefully not rechambered for .45 ACP, etc.
Congrats and...
My take

Last edited by iskra; 07-10-2017 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:19 AM
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Don't think that one has been rechambered to 45 colt. If it was, there would be either shallow rim recesses for the thicker 45 colt rims or the back of cylinder would have been shaved and stamping removed. It is possible the recoil shield was cut, but that is the worst method of modifying for 45 colt rim thickness.

Mine was modified by the slight rim recess method, which allows for the use of original 455 round because although the rims are thinner they also have a large OD so they rest on some of the original cylinder face.
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:53 AM
Tom 3Persons Tom 3Persons is offline
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Default Which first model of Triple lock is this one?

The 3 versions I am talking are in ref to a post by Hondo 44 here:
.455 New Century S&W info

As per his post, they are:

Version 1. “.44 HE - 1st Model”, ‘Triple Lock’, chambered for .455: 812* factory reconfigured unassembled or unsold ".44 Spl HE 1st Models", often not stamped .455…... For the British there are 666 #s1104 thru 10417 (obviously not all serial #s in this range were used for the 666).
(These will often have added lanyard swivels when converted to 455 at the factory by drilling thru the serial # - the one I have is not drilled through sn and is not stamped .455 - there is no caliber on the barrel)

Version 2. “.455 Mark II HE - 1st Model TL” in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to #5461 [H of S&W pg. 201] made 1914-15. Thus creating 63* duplicate serial #s with the 666 “.44 HE 1st Model TL” chambered in .455, 1st version above.

Version 3. “.455 Mark II HE - 2nd Model” (sans extractor barrel shroud and 3rd lock), but with slightly larger cylinder/frame window dimensions from versions 1. and 2. above, the ".44 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" factory converted to .455, and the ".455 HE 1st Model TL" produced in .455, respectively. The 2nd Model continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range beginning #5462 to #74755, shipped 1915-17. (Not this one as sn on mine is 2147)

By Feb 1916 724 were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, presumed for the RCMP [H of S&W, pg. 203]. – (.45 long colt does not fit into my revolver)

The triple lock in my pictures, sn 2147, was tried with a .45 long Colt cartridge, but it does not fit. .45 APC drops right in of course. A .450 Eley fits as well. I not have any .455 on hand so that trial has to wait but the Brit markings make that 98% sure to be a .455. So can anyone tell me if this one is a:
“.44 HE - 1st Model”, ‘Triple Lock’, chambered for .455
or is it a
“.455 Mark II HE - 1st Model TL” ?

Thanks
Tom
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:53 PM
Tom 3Persons Tom 3Persons is offline
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Default can anyone tell me if I have the version 1 or the version 2 TL?

I just tried - .45 long Colt will not fit in it.The serial number of this TL is 2147. The serial number is not drilled through in order to add the lanyard ring, it is beside it. There is no caliber marked on either side of the barrel.

Hondo 44 talks aobut the 3 versions in a recent post, as follows:

The 3 Versions of Hand Ejectors chambered in .455 Mk II for the British are:

1. “.44 HE 1st Model”, TL with .455 Mk II chambering: 812* factory reconfigured unassembled or unsold ".44 Spl HE 1st Models", often not .455 stamped, original chamberings unknown, 666 for the British #1104 thru 10417….These 812 .455 TLs were serial #’d in the .44 1st Model serial # range of 1 to 15375. Shipped 1914-16.

2. “.455 Mk II HE 1st Model”, TL in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to #5461 [H of S&W pg. 201] made 1914-15; thus creating a possible ~ 68* duplicate serial #s of the 812 “.44 HE 1st Model TLs, also in .455 chambering in 1. above.

3. “.455 Mk II HE 2nd Model” (with slightly different cylinder/frame window dimensions from the 44 and 455 HE 1st Models) continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range beginning #5462 to #74755, - Mine is #2147, so not this one.

Based on info and pictures provided above, can anyone tell me if I have the version 1 or the version 2 – and how you tell the difference?
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:40 PM
Tom 3Persons Tom 3Persons is offline
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Just tried - .45 long Colt will not fit in - too long.
I do not know if this TL is
1. “.44 HE 1st Model”, TL with .455 Mk II chambering: 812* factory reconfigured unassembled or unsold ".44 Spl HE 1st Models", often not .455 stamped, original chamberings unknown, 666 for the British #1104 thru 10417….These 812 .455 TLs were serial #’d in the .44 1st Model serial # range of 1 to 15375. Shipped 1914-16.
Or
2. “.455 Mk II HE 1st Model”, TL in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to #5461

Too low serial number to be
3. “.455 Mk II HE 2nd Model” (with slightly different cylinder/frame window dimensions from the 44 and 455 HE 1st Models) continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range beginning #5462 to #74755,

Based on info and pictures provided above, can anyone tell me if I have the version 1 or the version 2 – and how you tell the difference?
thanks
Tom
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:17 PM
Tom 3Persons Tom 3Persons is offline
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Well, to finish this one off, Hondo44 answered this question in a different thread, here it is:
It is not listed in Neal and Jinks pg. 203-205 as one of the 812 .44 1st Models converted to 455. Therefore it is a category 2. TL.

Thanks for the help Jim,
Tom
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:49 PM
SVT28 SVT28 is offline
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Hondo and I have a couple TL's in the 270X range and mine lettered as a Target model in 44 special shipped June 24th 1910. This one probably shipped after that since it has medallion grips. Mine lettered with non medallion checkered dished grips. Hope this helps.

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Old 07-14-2017, 04:19 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 3Persons View Post
Well, to finish this one off, Hondo44 answered this question in a different thread, here it is:
It is not listed in Neal and Jinks pg. 203-205 as one of the 812 .44 1st Models converted to 455. Therefore it is a category 2. TL.

Thanks for the help Jim,
Tom
Hi Tom,

You're very welcome. I agree with the above member that it shipped in 1914. It's a low # in the British contract special serial # series that began with #1 in 1914.

So its serial #/shipping date will not correspond to when any 44 TLs or 44 TLs converted to 455 were shipped because they're in the regular TL production serial series which began in 1908.

Rarity: Any of the 455 TLs are 10 times less numerous than the 455 2nd Models, so clearly scarcer. Although at close to 7000 produced they are not rare. However, any TL is collectible; the 455s less than the 44spl TL regular production. And as always, the better the condition, the higher the desirability and of course value.

The # in the yoke is an assembly # and should match the serial # before about 1959.

ASSEMBLY (factory work) #s: These multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the ‘yoke cut’ on frame (accompanied with a stamped inspector letter) opposite the yoke near the hinge, and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and early post war period. Once the gun is shipped, the only use for the assembly is to confirm the three parts it's stamped on are original.

In 1957 the assembly # in the yoke cut of the frame was relocated to the left side of grip frame after model #s were assigned and the serial # was eventually added in the ‘yoke cut’ where the assembly #, now moved to the left side of the grip frame, used to be. You know they are assembly (factory work) #s because of those 3 locations that always match on guns that are original, and that’s the only usefulness for them after guns leave the factory; still used to this day, long after serial number locations decreased.
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Last edited by Hondo44; 07-14-2017 at 04:50 AM.
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