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Old 07-11-2017, 04:24 AM
carby91 carby91 is offline
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This was the service revolver that a friend of mines grandfather was issued in WW2. He was a pilot with the RAF. There is no model number on it, but after some research I found out it is a Victory Model 10. My research also told me that most revolvers that went to Great Britain in the lend lease program weren't chambered in .38 S&W so I was hoping someone could shed a little more light on the history of this piece. The serial number is V147642.
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by carby91 View Post
This was the service revolver that a friend of mines grandfather was issued in WW2. He was a pilot with the RAF. There is no model number on it, but after some research I found out it is a Victory Model 10. My research also told me that most revolvers that went to Great Britain in the lend lease program weren't chambered in .38 S&W so I was hoping someone could shed a little more light on the history of this piece. The serial number is V147642.
Welcome to the forum.

It is indeed a Victory model, an if it is chambered in .38 S&W, it is the British Service version. More of these were actually made than of the .38 Special US version.

We don't call it a Model 10, although it belongs in the Model 10's famliy tree. Model numbers were not introduced until 1957.

The gun looks all original with correct stampings and in very good shape. The serial puts it in late 1942. The WB and P as well as the flaming bomb symbol on the butt are inspection and proof marks, the property stamp on the top signifies Lend-lease.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:00 AM
S&WsRsweet S&WsRsweet is offline
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Welcome ,that is a cool and interesting revolver thanks for posting ,it is always good to see historic firearms like yours on the forum a good learning experiance for us newer guys .Thanks also to Absalom for the information man you really make me look good down at the local gun shop those guys are like ,dang is there anything you don't know about Smith and Wessons and I just smile and say just the things they haven't invented yet .

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Old 07-11-2017, 07:10 AM
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The vast majority of VMs sent to the British and Commonwealth were 5" .38 S & Ws; there were a few 4 and 6" examples very early in the war, and rarely a 4" .38 Special with British proofmarks will be found for sale.

No harm in wiping off the Cosmoline from behind the recoil shield and near the barrel pin . Thanks for posting!
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:56 AM
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V147642 would probably have shipped from the factory in November 1942. This is a site with some basic information about Victory markings.
http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/v...and_wesson.htm

Almost all Victory (and pre-Victory) revolvers used by the British Commonwealth military during WWII were chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge, not the .38 S&W Special cartridge as used by the U. S. The .38 S&W cartridge is shorter and has a slightly larger diameter, than the .38 Special. The British called their military cartridge the .380 Revolver, Mark 1 or Mark 2. The Mark 1 had a 200 grain lead bullet. The Mark 2 (most common) has a 178 grain full metal jacket bullet. Dimensionally, it is identical to and interchangeable with the .38 S&W cartridge.

Last edited by DWalt; 07-11-2017 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:39 PM
carby91 carby91 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
Welcome to the forum.

It is indeed a Victory model, an if it is chambered in .38 S&W, it is the British Service version. More of these were actually made than of the .38 Special US version.

We don't call it a Model 10, although it belongs in the Model 10's famliy tree. Model numbers were not introduced until 1957.

The gun looks all original with correct stampings and in very good shape. The serial puts it in late 1942. The WB and P as well as the flaming bomb symbol on the butt are inspection and proof marks, the property stamp on the top signifies Lend-lease.
Thanks for the info I appreciate it. What would you estimate the value of this piece to be?
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
V147642 would probably have shipped from the factory in November 1942. This is a site with some basic information about Victory markings.
http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/v...and_wesson.htm

Almost all Victory (and pre-Victory) revolvers used by the British Commonwealth military during WWII were chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge, not the .38 S&W Special cartridge as used by the U. S. The .38 S&W cartridge is shorter and has a slightly larger diameter, than the .38 Special. The British called their military cartridge the .380 Revolver, Mark 1 or Mark 2. The Mark 1 had a 200 grain lead bullet. The Mark 2 (most common) has a 178 grain full metal jacket bullet. Dimensionally, it is identical to and interchangeable with the .38 S&W cartridge.
Thanks for the info. What would you estimate the value of this piece to be?
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:13 PM
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I can't see everything from your pictures, but it appears to be in quite high condition for an original BSR, it is not all messed-up with the myriad of proofmarks the British applied when these were surplussed out in the 1950s-60s, and it it has not been bored out for .38 Special. That makes this one a relative rarity in the world of BSRs. I'd opine it wouldn't be difficult to sell it in the $600 neighborhood. Some might say even more.

Last edited by DWalt; 07-11-2017 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:45 PM
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You need to sell to a British martial collector, not to a member of the public looking for a good .38 revolver. That could get you about $150-200 more. No one knowledgeable will buy the gun instead of a .38 Special for real world use. The cartridge is weak and obsolescent.

You erred in not posting a photo of the caliber marking on the right of the barrel. Nor did you show the left of the barrel, where any postwar proofmarks or notes about caliber change would appear.

If this is really a family heirloom, I urge you to keep it unless you need money really badly.

Many here are very interested in WW II aircraft. What did your ancestor fly? You said he was a pilot. Where did he serve? If a fighter pilot, do you know if he shot down any enemy planes? How many, and were they German, Italian, and/or Japanese?

Please start a topic about this in The Lounge section of the board, and post any suitable photos. Many here will want to know abut this, and if you can show him with his plane, so much the better. So far, we'e seen revolvers like yours, issued to a fighter pilot and to a warrant officer in an armored car regiment. Both were South African. Was your GF British? Other Commonwealth country?

Over 568, 000 of those S&W .38-200 guns were supplied to the Commonwealth countries in WW II. Earlier ones had normal blued finishes and checkered stocks. After April, 1942, all had five-inch inch barrels and dull gray finishes and plain wooden stocks, no checkering.

Last edited by Texas Star; 07-11-2017 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:03 AM
carby91 carby91 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
You need to sell to a British martial collector, not to a member of the public looking for a good .38 revolver. That could get you about $150-200 more. No one knowledgeable will buy the gun instead of a .38 Special for real world use. The cartridge is weak and obsolescent.

You erred in not posting a photo of the caliber marking on the right of the barrel. Nor did you show the left of the barrel, where any postwar proofmarks or notes about caliber change would appear.

If this is really a family heirloom, I urge you to keep it unless you need money really badly.

Many here are very interested in WW II aircraft. What did your ancestor fly? You said he was a pilot. Where did he serve? If a fighter pilot, do you know if he shot down any enemy planes? How many, and were they German, Italian, and/or Japanese?

Please start a topic about this in The Lounge section of the board, and post any suitable photos. Many here will want to know abut this, and if you can show him with his plane, so much the better. So far, we'e seen revolvers like yours, issued to a fighter pilot and to a warrant officer in an armored car regiment. Both were South African. Was your GF British? Other Commonwealth country?

Over 568, 000 of those S&W .38-200 guns were supplied to the Commonwealth countries in WW II. Earlier ones had normal blued finishes and checkered stocks. After April, 1942, all had five-inch inch barrels and dull gray finishes and plain wooden stocks, no checkering.
I have the photos I was just unable to post more than 5. There are no other proof marks other than the ones shown. He is not my relative I am posting this for someone else but I will dig up more info. What I do know is that he was Canadian, and flew a Dehavilland Mosquito for the British airforce, a lot of Canadians got into the war early by enlisting with the British.
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:51 AM
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I have a civilian issued 4" Victory in .38 S&W that shipped in early 1942. When I bought it it was fitted with skimpy square butt grips. I have fitted some sanded down grips from a Taurus 66 that fill my hand better and a Wolff ribbed mainspring (#1) together with a 13 in trigger rebound spring for shooting in a 48 round classsic match, using 148 gn plated HBWC's over 2.4 gn Mulwex AP50N.

It is a nice accurate pleasant to shoot revolver.

I have kept the original parts in a safe place to be refitted later.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:40 AM
Tyrod Tyrod is offline
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Wouldn't the revolver in the op be the forerunner of the Model 11.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
...... That makes this one a relative rarity in the world of BSRs. I'd opine it wouldn't be difficult to sell it in the $600 neighborhood. Some might say even more.
I would agree, especially after seeing the additional photos of the whole gun. Great condition, and with no post-war proofs, seldom encountered.

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Wouldn't the revolver in the op be the forerunner of the Model 11.
Yes, although putting it like that sounds a bit funny, given that, historically, the BSR is quite important, while the Model 11 is a hardly ever encountered oddity.
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:49 PM
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From your later pix, that BSR looks about as pristine as they get. It would be a prize for a WWII military collector.
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:00 AM
carby91 carby91 is offline
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Quote:
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From your later pix, that BSR looks about as pristine as they get. It would be a prize for a WWII military collector.
Thanks for all your help. I will tell the owner the cherish it.
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