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Old 07-14-2017, 08:17 AM
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Default Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.

Here we go with another "What's it worth?" inquiry.

I was at the range today. An old friend asked me to help him evaluate two revolvers he inherited.

One is a .32/.22 , fair finish , mechanically sound. (Purchased new by present owners grandfather , not shot much.) Grips are excellent. Original box and tools are in possession , although I did not see those items. I know that this information is a bit vague , but I thought you folks could put me in the ballpark , please.

Next up is an item with which I have no previous knowledge - a .22 short tip-up. The finish on this one is poor , grips excellent , mechanically sound. The "story" on this one is - grandfather was a LEO , took the piece off of a perp , FWIW.

My friend has no heirs and intends to sell these revolvers at some future date. If anyone would like more info I would be happy to oblige , better pictures , serial# and so on. This was all I got in our brief time at the range.

Hoping for input ; Thank You.

'Ski
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Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170713_111116-jpg   Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170713_111406-jpg  

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Old 07-14-2017, 08:34 AM
John Fugate John Fugate is offline
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32/22 ,, 450.00 ,, Tip up 250.00. Rough old guns, these are realistic values. No collector value. Just tired old iron.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:32 AM
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Not so fast on that .22. We'll require more and better pics of that bad boy, before we can assess the "real" value. Looks pretty interesting.....
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
One is a .32/.22 , fair finish , mechanically sound. (Purchased new by present owners grandfather , not shot much.) Grips are excellent. Original box and tools are in possession
I think the $400 mentioned for this is VERY LOW.
Original box and tools add SIGNIFICANT value.

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Old 07-14-2017, 07:01 PM
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Email sent to Waveski. Await response.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:14 PM
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The proper name is 22/32, not 32/22 and without the serial number, the value cannot be accurately estimated. It could be an original Bekeart, a later model sold through Bekeart, or a standard 22/32 HFT. Looking at the stocks, it suggests a 1920s era HFT but they may not be original?? At any rate, the gun with box and tools is worth more than quoted. I think you might have a $550 - $600 gun/box/tools.

As for the Model 1, 3rd, they just do not sell for much money, even in good condition and for some reason the cylinder and barrel look very dull compared to the frame?? Better pictures would be very helpful to be more accurate, but $250 might be on the high side . . . or not . . .
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:30 PM
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22/32 , thank you.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:23 PM
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Waveski
It was good that Gary corrected the nomenclature. Let me explain:

It gets its name because it is a .22 caliber revolver that was built on the .32 caliber frame (I frame) which was larger than the tiny M frame that the then-current rimfire revolvers were built on. Until 1931, S&W did not build a .22 on the K frame, so the .22/32 was called a "Heavy Frame Target" model until the introduction of the first K-22.

This same naming convention was used on other guns. For example, in 1930, the company introduced a .38 caliber revolver that was built on the .44 frame (N frame). It was called the .38/44.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:37 PM
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If I saw that 22/32 out with the original box, I'd likely drop $700 on it pretty easy. That's assuming there is nothing wrong with the gun. It looks pretty clean in your photo. Last one I saw out was from the 1930's. No box. LGS had $1500 on it. Way high. He took forever to sell it. Don't know what he got, but he had a good bit in it.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:31 PM
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JP@AK -

Thank you as well for the expanded information.

To all -

I will try to arrange for better pictures , including box and tools , next week.
'Ski
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Old 07-23-2017, 07:16 PM
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Default Back to the topic ...

Here are a few more images. The original box and tools for the 22/32 are present , but very worn. As previously stated , finish is compromised , mechanics of both revolvers are fine. Stocks are in very good condition.
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Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133026-jpg   Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133235-jpg   Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133244-jpg   Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133105-jpg   Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133320-jpg  

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Old 07-23-2017, 07:21 PM
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Default Model 1

The tip-up , images , and the tools and stocks of the 22/32...
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Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133358-jpg   Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133044-jpg   Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133513-jpg   Value of 2 old Smiths... 22/32 and a model 1.-20170721_133600-jpg  
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Old 07-23-2017, 10:21 PM
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The finish on the 22/32 isn't as bad as you might think. The box and tools and it's easily worth more than any estimate you've gotten so far.

Whatever you do, DON'T remove that little VL&A sticker from the box. Believe it or not, it'll actually add value to the whole package.

Mark
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:17 PM
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Well, I happen to think the Model 1, 3rd issue is just dandy...it could find a home in my safe any day. That puppy is on;u abpit 150 years old...would I look that good when I reach half its age.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fugate View Post
32/22 ,, 450.00 ,, Tip up 250.00. Rough old guns, these are realistic values. No collector value. Just tired old iron.
A pre-war .22/32 with box and accessories for $450? Nobody collects a gun like this?

That gun wouldn't last 5 minutes if listed for sale at that price. And then it would be resold for twice the price.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:25 AM
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When you say "fair condition" you sure rate condition on a different scale than most others! I believe the condition would rate near Excellent, much better than most were thinking, so value would be much higher than estimated before your pictures. The gun is 1920 - 1927 production and stocks match the era. Box is also from the same era. I believe you have a $800 set and it would have no problem selling at that price. As a well recognized gun auction house, an even higher price would not be out of the question. Nice find.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:46 AM
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Default $800 seems LOW

Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
When you say "fair condition" you sure rate condition on a different scale than most others! I believe the condition would rate near Excellent, much better than most were thinking, so value would be much higher than estimated before your pictures. The gun is 1920 - 1927 production and stocks match the era. Box is also from the same era. I believe you have a $800 set and it would have no problem selling at that price. As a well recognized gun auction house, an even higher price would not be out of the question. Nice find.
I think $800 is too low. I do not know what it would bring at a well handled auction.

Bekeart
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:26 PM
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One more disclosure --- The box has a duct tape patch on one corner.

I will try to get and post the serial numbers.
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Old 07-26-2017, 04:35 PM
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Default Serial numbers

I have had requests for serial numbers of the two revolvers which are the subject here ---

The numbers on the little Model ! are a bit hard to read. I used a jewelers magnifying glass , and I am reasonably sure that the second digit is a "5".

The numbers of the 22/32 are clear, barrel flat and grip strap.

Enjoy the images.
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:49 PM
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Could be a "13" or "15", but would have been manufactured in either 1868 or 1869. The 22/32 HFT would have shipped from the factory most likely in 1926 or 1927.

As for value, I have yet to see a 22/32 HFT sell for much over $800, but certainly have not seen them all. To be honest, I think that some estimates are arrived at by parting out the set. The box might sell for $250 on ebay, while the gun might sell for $700, plus the cleaning rods might bring another $50. Problem is that selling everything together will normally go somewhat cheaper than its parts, but it would be bad to break up the set.
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:58 PM
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Hopefully some one more knowledgeable will comment on the number on the butt.

I do not ever remember seeing numbers stamped into the butt of a 22/33 HFT.

Early in production there were numbers stamped int the wood of one grip.

Bekeart
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Old 07-26-2017, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekeart View Post
Hopefully some one more knowledgeable will comment on the number on the butt.

I do not ever remember seeing numbers stamped into the butt of a 22/33 HFT.

Early in production there were numbers stamped int the wood of one grip.

Bekeart
I believe the serial on the butt was the tip-up as evidenced by the rounded butt.
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Old 07-26-2017, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
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I believe the serial on the butt was the tip-up as evidenced by the rounded butt.
That is correct. Numbers on the butt are for the tip-up.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:08 AM
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The .22/32 with serial number 427726 would have shipped (most likely) in mid 1926 to mid 1927. The tag on the box means that it was probably shipped to Von Lengerke & Antoine,Chi,IL, assuming that the box is original to the gun. There are no numbers stamped on the butts of .22/32's however, the first 2500 or so did have an assembly number stamped on the bottom of the left stock.

It is reported that the first 3,000 built had this number but my database doesn't show any with numbers higher than the 2500's.

The first 1000 fall into the 138,XXX and 139,XXX range, the second 1000 fall in the 160,XXX to 165,XXX range and the last 5-600 show up on guns between 207,926 and 208,416 that were all shipped to M.W. Robinson, NYC in 1914.

The next group of guns showing up in my database are in the 220,XXX range and I do not have any recorded from there until the end of production that have a left stock stamping.

I would be a buyer for the .22/32 for about $800 and the Model 1 for about $225. The .22/32 box has value but not as much as one of the Bekeart labeled boxes from 1911.

If you handle the gun again, I would love to know the last patent date from the top of the barrel for my database. Most likely it is 09 but it could also be an early 14.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:22 PM
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Last patent : Sept. 14 , '09
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:22 PM
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I bought a 22/32 three years ago. No box, not nearly as nice.....$600. I agree that this one would be north of $800.
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:01 AM
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I bought a 22/32 three years ago. No box, not nearly as nice.....$600. I agree that this one would be north of $800.
From what I have seen I would offer $1000.

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