Help with Value of a 1917 Brazilian

SuperGoat · #1 07-17-2017, 05:16 PM

So I wanted to sell my Brazilian contract 1917 but it is a little confusing getting all the information on these guns. It has all the typical features of a 1917 Brazilian, has it's swivel and the grips look like they belong to the gun. Serial begins with 1447xx. Shoots great, has no timing issues. Took it apart recently to check the guts, no rust anywhere.
What is the value of this revolver? I researched it a little but mostly found really rusted scratched up models. Any help appreciated. (Can take more pictures if needed)

pharmer · #2 07-17-2017, 05:26 PM

I have never seen a Brazilian contract gun in such fine shape. The one I had in the last century looked like it was stored in the bilge. Worked just fine though. I would guess that gun would be in the $400+ range. Joe

Muley Gil · #3 07-17-2017, 05:29 PM

It looks like it was part of the 1930s issue Brazilians. Does it have a square notch rear sight?

Kinman · #4 07-17-2017, 05:33 PM

Yours is in better than most condition from what I've seen and currently own. I would not consider having that one refinished, it is certainly in "Good" condition and probably leaning toward "VG" from what I can see. I rarely see a Brazilian in as nice a condition as yours, they can be as nice as a Commercial Model but thats very rare. Not being a sound appraiser, my 3rd edition bible says that Brazilian's are worth 50-75% of what a standard Model of 1917. Personally I think they are underrated and would lean towards the 75% and in the condition of yours very strongly. If it were mine to sell I would ask around $750 and be willing to take $650, but then again I like Brazilians and think they are the equal to anything but a very high grade Model 1917, this being the centennial of the Great War their values are overrated. Good Luck, thats a heck of a nice Brazilian model.

SuperGoat · #5 07-17-2017, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

It looks like it was part of the 1930s issue Brazilians. Does it have a square notch rear sight?

Not sure, here are some pictures.

Muley Gil · #6 07-17-2017, 05:56 PM

Yours has the older dimple rear sight. You have to able find WW I acceptance marks. S&W bought back 1917 frames and assembled them into revolvers for a second shipment of 1917s to Brazil in 1946.

SuperGoat · #7 07-17-2017, 06:12 PM

It does have two markings that I have found (haven't looked that hard though) one on the cylinder and one under the barrel.

murphydog · #8 07-17-2017, 06:51 PM

If the left side of the gun is as nice as the right (

), I would agree with the $650-750 value estimate. The stocks are from an earlier 1917 Army; I would guess the right panel will not have a matching SN stamped on the inside.

SuperGoat · #9 07-17-2017, 07:09 PM

Here are the markings I was talking about (sorry about the photo quality, using my phone to take pictures). They are the same mark design.

murphydog · #10 07-17-2017, 07:26 PM

Those are Armory inspector's stamps, which would have been on parts intended for 1917 Army revolvers.

Jack Flash · #11 07-17-2017, 10:05 PM

S/N is 1447xx

That is outside the range Roy Jinks lists for the First or Second Shipments (1937 and 1946, respectively). But that may not mean a whole lot. I have a Brazilian that letters as a Second Group revolver (1946) but is outside (low) of the two possible 1946 ranges RJ gives:

166,000... 175,150 and 207,196... 209,878

Yours was most likely made from spare / leftover components S&W found in one of their buildings after WWII, and decided to make them into complete revolvers and sell them to Brazil. Hence the US military inspection stamps on some components. That plus the U Notch rear sight makes me agree with the statement that it shipped in 1946 as part of the Second Group.

These Second Group revolvers are often found in much better condition than First Group revolvers. Obviously, the First Group had a longer service life and went with the Brazilian Expeditionary Force to fight in Italy in WWII. The latter alone may account for their generally rougher condition.

SuperGoat · #12 07-17-2017, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Flash

S/N is 1447xx

That is outside the range Roy Jinks lists for the First or Second Shipments (1937 and 1946, respectively). But that may not mean a whole lot. I have a Brazilian that letters as a Second Group revolver (1946) but is outside (low) of the two possible 1946 ranges RJ gives:

166,000... 175,150 and 207,196... 209,878

Yours was most likely made from spare / leftover components S&W found in one of their buildings after WWII, and decided to make them into complete revolvers and sell them to Brazil. Hence the US military inspection stamps on some components.

Would all the serial numbers still match? The number on the frame, cylinder, and barrel match.

Jack Flash · #13 07-17-2017, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGoat

Would all the serial numbers still match? The number on the frame, cylinder, and barrel match.

I believe the practice at the time was to put the serial number on the following six components:

the butt, cylinder face, barrel flat, yoke, back of the extractor star, and inside of one of the stocks.

Someone else may know more about this, but I don't think spare parts / leftovers made in 1917 - 1919 were serial numbered. So maybe as they were assembled into a complete revolver in 1946, serial numbers were applied.

Edited to add:
The frame would have been serial numbered when it was made in December 1918. By that point the war had ended. Maybe that's why it wasn't assembled and shipped then.
U.S. Military Dates of Manufacture

Jack Flash · #14 07-17-2017, 10:32 PM

I forgot to say anything about value. That one is nice. I do not know if I would let it go for $750. WWI M1917s routinely sell in the $1,000 + range. I would say that is in every way their equivalent except it lacks a service history in the US Army. But it makes up for that with its superb condition. That's what I think anyways!