Update re: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/670896243

This letter arrived today (08/14/2017).

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Not a Victory if no V. Probably a .38/200 BSR.

s/n 844xxx shipped in Oct/41
s/n 877xxx shipped in Dec/41

This is s/n 877xxx. It has been chopped and chromed


"V" prefix went from V1 - V769,000 (approx). Then the SV's took over from SV769,001 to SV811,119

Here is an unmodified .38 special from 1941, s/n 765xxx

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

By definition, Victories all have the V (or SV) prefix. 859064 was probably shipped in late 1941 as a civilian M&P if it is a .38 Special. Closest on my list is 8584xx shipping in 11/41.

If that number has no prefix, it is from before U.S. involvement in the war. Otherwise, it would have to be one with an S prefix. V and SV guns did not go that high.

Since it is a .38 Special and not .38 S&W, it may not have gone to the British at all. It could be a civilian gun or have been co-opted by the U.S. government for some other purpose. There was a period when the gov't was buying guns "off the shelf" so to speak.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Most US calibered M&P's in that serial area and time went to agencies or other "official" rather than regular commercial customers. Does it have a lanyard loop or hole?

There were a considerable number of S&W (in caliber 38 S&W, not 38 Special) shipped to England that had no "V" prefix, and are referred to as Pre-Victory's, or BSR (British Service Revolver). I'm not sure of the s/n range, but I believe that one would fall in the range. Is it chambered for 38 S&W?

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Charles:

I know you are well-qualified to correctly read the caliber off the barrel, so it is not a BSR. You also know to look for non-factory markings, so I think you would have noticed and mentioned British proofs or other indications that it went overseas. There were limited numbers of .38 Special-chambered pre-Victory M&P's that were shipped to Britain in 1940/41; however, these are not categorized as British Service Models by collectors. Most production of M&P's in both calibers from the upper 600-thousands onward went for official orders; there are relatively few commercial .38 Specials around. But by your serial, all would likely still have had standard Carbonia blue finish and checkered medallion small service stocks. Most had lanyard swivels. Ultimately, a letter would be unavoidable .

Update:
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/670896243

It arrived today. It is indeed a 5" .38 special with all matching numbers. The interesting thing is that it has a plugged lanyard ring hole.

Does that clear up the mystery or make it worse??

Best,
Charles

A late pre-war .38 M & P, and it would not be a surprise if it lettered to a government or defense-related destination with the butt swivel, plugged afterward.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

You'll like this one Charles. This revolver was shipped in Dec 1941. It shipped as a Blue finish, Lend Lease revolver. My guess is it shipped as a 5" SW caliber. You can see it didn't end up that way and does have a plugged lanyard hole. It also was converted to a .38 special but it wasn't a very good job. The brass expands in the chambers. I still haven't tried a SW caliber in it.



s/n is 877769

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Mike,
Well...... the stocks are pretty!!

Seriously, I really LOVE it!

Best,
Charles

P.S.,
Here is mine with the proper stocks.

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Well, that answered the question as what my next letter request is going to be!

I was following that auction, just to see where it went! Surprised the gun sold for that low a price. I think that seller would sell more guns for more money if he didn't have such lousy pics. I think you did very well.

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TEAM DNF

It letters as a Tennessee Valley Authority gun that shipped in October 1941. New agency for me! Pretty happy about that!!!!

TVA supplies power for most of the southeastern USA with water harnessed from the many dams that we all use for lake fun on the weekends. I think the headquarters are now in Knoxville, TN.

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Matthew Conrad

Woohoo!

Ahem ... just saying, I love to be proven right occasionally ....

Of course, full credit goes to the others who had the same idea.

The Tennessee Valley Authority was , and still is, a Gov't agency that acquired it's own handguns and sometimes stamped them with the TVA initials. I had a Victory model that was sold to them during WW2 as a Defense Supply Commission shipment. Roy lettered it as a duplicate serial number. The TVA was a controversial entity not popular with the residents of the area it was set up to serve as many of the dams it built flooded homesteads and farms driving people from their homes, with little compensation. The dams were guarded by hired guards, with their trusty S&Ws, against damage or destruction by disgruntled citizens. It's an interesting history read! Ed.

My 4th change # 683938 long action was shipped to the Sacramento PD 7-14-1940. Blued 6". Big Larry