There is a blued K frame M&P with a 6" bbl.& wood checkered medallion stocks in .38 S&W for sale in a shop that I'm familiar with in another state. I've only seen a few pics so far. It has heavy carry wear. Is this an unusual variation? Is the 6" version considered a Victory or a BSR?
Again, I've only seen pics and don't have the serial number yet. From the images, it appears to be British proof marked. The asking price is $389.
Any info will be appreciated......

Best,
Charles

Edit:
I took the plunge and bought it..... It was $499 when I looked at it in person. On sale now @ $389.66. The lanyard ring is missing. But, I have a spare in the parts drawer.

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IIRC, some of the 6" .38 S&Ws were sent overseas before the Brits standardized on the 5" barrel. Might have gone to South Africa?

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I'm still not certain but continue to read and reread the 3rd edition of the SCS&W.

If it has a "V" prefix on serial number it is a Victory (or SV).

The K-200 was available with 4, 5 and 6 inch barrels and was a 38S&W caliber. Victory's were normally .38 special.

I have a 1944 Victory with a 5" barrel and .38S&W.


I also have a BSR 5" barrel in .38 special shipped in 1941.


How is that for consistency?

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Hi Charles.

First of all, drop the "K-200" label . Its origin is unknown, but nobody who mattered called it that, it's not contemporary. [Edit: I know better now ] Collectors don't use it.

You are likely looking at a pre-Victory from 1940/41. S&W began producing service models for Britain in 1940 in the upper 600-thousands, in various barrel lengths and still commercial finish.

PS: The Canadians got quite a few 6" guns, so look for the arrow-in-a-C, although if it has "British proofs", as you say, that's less likely. We have to distinguish pre-Lend-lease British property marks and proofs from post-war commercial proofs. South Africa is unlikely as those were (I think exclusively) 4" barreled. Small service stocks, checkered with medallion, would be correct for guns at least to the high 800-thousands.

Regarding the "K-200" it appears in the 3rd Edition of the SCS&W by Jim Supca & Richard Nahas on page 140.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

According to Roy, answering this specific question in 2012, the K-200 designation was a factory internal designation that was used to separate the British service model for test firing and sight fitting since the British contract specified configuring the gun for a 200-grain bullet.

It appears to have made its way into some older literature and (presumably) the SCSW and was erroneously treated as a label for the gun. Neither Smith & Wesson, nor the British, nor the US authorities who later processed the Lend-lease guns, ever used this label for the finished guns as far as I've been able to find out.

Always happy to change my state of information based on someone's better documentation.

I have seen references to the "K-200" nomenclature as being of European origin, but not why. It's fairly certain that the British military never referred to the M&P revolver in .38 S&W as the K-200. Nor was ".38/200" an officially-used military nomenclature. But both apparently were used internally by S&W as a shorthand designation for that model. The official British military nomenclature for this revolver was "Pistol, Revolver, Smith and Wesson, No. 2" and they also did not refer to the cartridge as the ".38/200" but as the ".380 Revolver MkI (or MkII for the 178 grain FMJ load of WWII)". Or sometimes MkIIz to designate the use of nitrocellulose flake powder rather than Cordite. I don't know what the other members of the British Commonwealth called the S&W revolver.

The "38-200" is somewhat trickier question as, unlike the "K-200", the issue is not limited to Smith & Wesson. Colt's Official Police revolvers produced for the British Purchasing Commission were actually stamped as such, on whose initiative I don't know as up to this point most .38 caliber Colts, no matter which .38, were simply stamped 38.

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This thread is a perfect illustration of why I joined the forum. You guys are good!

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

The seller emailed me w/ the serial number. It is 707872. That has to be 1940-41. I have a 6" .38 special M&P in the 799xxx range tha shipped to the Vermont State Police in '41.

Is the 6" ..38 S&W from the original post worth $389 plus shipping in shootable condition? It would be more interesting than a run of the mill 5". I have a few of those from German & Austrian Police agencies as well as a 4" .38 spl Victory from the U.S. Maritime Commission.

Best,
Charles

That checks. My 1941 in post number 3 shipped in April of 1941. S/N is 765xxx.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

The closest SN I have on my list to 707872 is 7074xx which shipped in 9/40. I'd think a 6" barrel would be very possible at that time as it would have been shipped prior to the Lend-Lease Act. The British were not too fussy about things like barrel length at that time, so long as it would shoot. It would have been a direct purchase by the British government and was probably shipped to the British Purchasing Commission. I believe the price would be OK assuming that the chambers have not been bored for .38 Special and the grips are original. Knowing the markings would be helpful.

My brother once had one of the six-inch ones.

I've seen photos of RAF and RAAF pilots with the butts sticking 'WAY out of Pattern 37 web holsters. I'm surprised they could snap the flaps shut. Those holsters are made for five-inch barrels.

Previously on this board, we've seen a six-inch one issued BY THE RAF to a South African major seconded to RAF in North Africa and later Burma. We also saw Peter's nice five-inch blued example issued to a warrant officer in a South African armored car regiment. Clearly, not all SA issued ones had four-inch barrels. After April, 1942, when barrels were standardized at five inches and the dull gray finish emerged, South Africa would be sent the same as other Commonwealth countries. (South Africa did not become a separate Republic outside the Commonealth until about 1960.)

My 6 inch BSR, 715402, letters as shipping to the British Purchasing Commission in New York city on November 25, 1940. It has the commercial finish, original stocks with medallions, and no proof marks. See pics below. Some here have valued it at $600, but it is in very good condition, too.

The stocks on the gun you're showing are of the pre-1920 type, I believe.

If it is original finish with matching stocks and has just carry wear (even if heavy), not corrosion or other abuse issues, I would consider that a good buy.

Charles, I have #716360 in the same 6" 38-200 configuration as yours and it has the mysterious "BO" marking on right grip frame (under stocks) and it also has a prefix "O" before the barrel serial. I would not be surprised if your gun has the same markings. I have done a little research on these "BO" guns and find them in the serial range 697000-750000. Most of them are 6" with a few 4" and 5". Sure would like to know the significance of the "BO" marking, but it remains elusive as of this writing. Looks like you got a good one at a reasonable price. Ron

Those 1910-20 grips are worth a bit all by themselves.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

The last time I looked, the original post had no pictures, but now it does. The grips are indeed from the 1911-20 period and are in heavily worn condition. I wouldn't assign much value to them in that shape. Speaking only for myself, if I saw the gun pictured (SN 707872) for sale, I wouldn't be very interested in it at that price. It's been around the block too many times.