I won a nickel revolver in 32 S&W Long online and picked it up from my FFL after work yesterday. I took an immediate liking to it, as it is my first I frame.

Upon inspection I have concerns.

The first thing that I noticed is that the cylinder will not open unless you push the cylinder release forward while simultaneously applying rearward pressure on the cylinder.

The more concerning condition is that the revolver is out of time. When the gun is in full lockup (pull hammer back, hold trigger back, lower the hammer) the chambers do not align with the barrel and the cylinder stop is not fully engaged with the stop notches on the cylinder.

The listing stated "100% working order." I understand that this is a very old firearm and did not expect it to mimic a new gun in functionality. I do believe that the timing problem puts its condition closer to "unsafe' than "100% working order."

My dilemma is this: I like the gun and have very little money into it. I probably wouldn't get much back on it after paying for return shipping - to the extent that it may not be worth the bother. On the other hand, the issues with this gun are beyond my ability to address and I suspect that the repair costs would equal or exceed the cost of a functional replacement.

I'm looking for suggestions or perhaps perspectives that will help me figure where to go from here.

Here's some quick-n-dirty pics, just because:

My I frame I posted about only cost me about $50 to fix, and it sounds like yours has the same basic problem of slow carryup.

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I think I'd look into getting a new firing pin bushing too. That one looks a little big to me.

Can you post a picture of the hammer at full cock, especially the hammer nose?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

That is encouraging. I read your post. It looks like you gunsmith got it working. Am I reading that right?

Yeah.

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My camera is having problems. this is the only new pic that I could pull off of it.

That does look rode hard and put away wet!

One of the reasons I like to buy guns from other S&W forum members is you can usually trust their judgement on the condition of the firearm they are selling, as they have a personal interest in the gun, whereas auction sites have a lot of "gun dealers" that generalize about condition to the point of their descriptions not being of much use at all. Not all of them..but a lot of them. Especially the pawn shops..you will really roll the dice with most of them.

I'd say spend a bit more and have it fixed. It will be a dandy shooter!

Fitting a new hand should fix the timing issue. Look at the tip of the extractor while thumb piece is pressed forward. Does the center pin come flush or a little past the end of the knob? If not the tip of the ejector rod may need just a bit of dressing down so that the center pin comes just past flush. Also, does the pin in the lug under barrel move easily. Might be a bit gummed up and making it hard to go all the way forward.

I honestly think this issue may be that the extractor rod needs to be screwed in further. It's as tight as i can get it by hand. I really don't want to apply more force to it until i have some cases to put in the cylinder.

I did give it a thorough cleaning.

I don't mind taking it to a gunsmith (hoping that it is a relatively inexpensive fix.)

I also thought about replacing the hand, but all that I find online look pretty well used, as is to be expected.

I hate it when people aren't honest about guns they're selling online. Doesn't happen that often to me, but it happens. I'm glad there seems to be a low cost fixt for your dilema. How is the bore? If it's ok, I'd say the gun is worth fixing.

Looking at the picture which shows the tip of the hand, it appears it (the hand) is too long and may not be the correct one, as it looks like it comes through the window too far. Then again, I'm probably wrong.

That is one well loved old revolver. Can it be fixed? Sure it can.
Just time and money. Everyone has a project gun. I have one on the
bench right now. How does the bore and chambers look? Go for it and have fun and learn. Best

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Looks like it needs a real good cleaning and lube. The hand is spring loaded,and pushed forward to ride in the slot to access the extractor/timing wheel.If it hangs up due to debris or guck,it will be off time or inconsistent.

Agreed. Based on the external pictures, I would have bid on a different one if the seller hadn't said "100% working order."

The bore looks pretty good. Not perfect, of course, but the rifling is strong and there's not a lot of pitting.

I'm going to start checking out the local gunsmiths. I've only used one once before and I wasn't pleased with the outcome.

I believe that is a .32 Regulation Police revolver since the SN is on the forestrap. The grips are round to square butt and are cut to fit the notch (rebate or step) in the backstrap. Has nothing to do with fixing it, though . Parts are usually available if you need them. I would thoroughly clean it first before making any decisions about what is not functioning correctly. If you have or have access to a sonic cleaner, that's what I'd use. If not, soak it for a day or two in a good penetrating oil like Kroil or Ed's Red and scrub it with some brass brushes. In the meantime, get some endshake bushings from Brownells or MidwayUSA. They come in .002" and .004" sizes. They are inexpensive and you might need a couple to adjust endshake on the cylinder. There is a good gunsmithing FAQ here on the forum. That will help you do much of the minor work. If you need more information, MidwayUSA has quite a few video tutorials showing how to work on S&W revolvers.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

It's not going to get a whole lot cleaner unless I invest in an ultrasonic cleaner. Most of what you see in the pictures is wear and fresh oil. This style does not have the spring attached to the trigger. Tension is provided by a spring and pin in the sideplate.

Guy is right - this is a very early Regulation Police. Its numbered in the 1903 serial number series, but its actually a Regulation Police. Its thought that these guns were introduced at serial number 263,000 , but this one is earlier than that.

Regards, Mike Priwer

zipty6,

Congrats on your great buy.

The issue you mention is so very common on these well used old Hand Ejectors. But also so very easy to fix at no cost. I've done dozens.

I can't remember recommending the following do-it-yourself to anyone that did not have success, even w/o gunsmith experience.

The issue is called a lack of "Carry Up". In other words the hand does not carry the cyl far enough to lock up within the normal cycle distance of the hammer travel.

Frankly, based on your assessment and comments, I believe Pat Sweeney's "Gunsmithing Pistols & Revolvers", 2nd Ed.(2004), pp.219-220 is the most sensible, a perfectly good solution, what I would do, what I have done many times, what S&W factory trained smiths have done in similar situations, and also what members on this forum have done successfully after reading this, which is:

Peening the ratchet tooth (or teeth) to correct timing/cyl ‘carry up’ is so simple, but you're the only one to decide if you can manage it.

Replacing and fitting a new hand may fix your problem and may not, but the hand is not likely needed or at fault. It’s the harder part compared to the cyl.

The flat surfaces of the teeth facing you when looking at the rear face of the cyl are where to peen. The tooth at about 3 o'clock is the next to be engaged by the hand (when cyl is closed) to advance the chamber to the right of the one at 12 o’clock, into firing position. The cylinder turns counterclockwise so the hand will engage the 'bottom side' of that tooth. The flat surface facing you is where to peen, on the edge right above the bottom side of the tooth. No need to take the gun apart at all. I lay the gun on a padded surface on its right side, muzzle pointing to the left (I’m right handed) with cyl propped open with a rolled up shop cloth.

If you're worried about force to the yoke and frame, I'm afraid that you're envisioning TOO HARD of a tap. Just a very light peen with a small hammer and punch is all that's needed. The ratchet teeth are not hardened! This takes finesse, not force.

And by laying the gun on a padded surface without restraint as I described, it's allowed to move when the punch is tapped with the hammer mitigating any force to the yoke and frame.


You may not even see the metal deform and it can be enough to solve the problem. One light tap with a small light hammer and flat face punch then close the cylinder and try it. If the cylinder doesn't ‘carry up’ or even if it does C/U but still has too much 'looseness' when fully cocked, give the tooth another tap. You can do all six teeth, or just others where there's looseness with the chamber in firing position when the hammer is cocked. Rough handling/constant double action rapid fire can accelerate the teeth wear but it did not happen overnight, and now you have another 10 years of shooting before it'll need anything more, depending of course on how much you shoot the gun. If you peen too much and the cylinder carries up too far that puts cocking the hammer in a bind or the bolt 'jumps' out of the cyl notch, not a problem, peen the surface that the hand contacts and push it back.

Also for side-to-side cylinder play, make sure the edges of the cylinder notches are not burred out or the cyl bolt can pop out of the notch. Gentle peening of the notch edges can fix that as well. “Tight lock up” is fine, but can be over emphasized. Recognize the cyl needs some play for the bullet to align the chamber to the forcing cone.

The hand is made of harder steel than the teeth since it has six times the contacts of each tooth, and lack of proper carry up is a typical result after many rounds of shooting. That's why I would not install a new hand, it already has the advantage.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks for this information. One of the reasons I posted was in case there was something distinctive about the gun that could sway my decision. Looks like I'll just have to hang on to it now.

I appreciate you posting this. I actually have your comment to on Plain Old Dave's post open in another browser tab.

Your 32 RP shipped in 1917 during the war and therefore has no S&W logo on either side of the frame because it wasn't used during the war and not until ~ 1920.

A good polish with Flitz or Mothers mag wheel polish will really improve the nickel by getting rid of the myriad small scratches and oxidation.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thank you. The bottom of the Left grip is stamped PAT JUNE 5 1917. This lead me to think it would probably be from a bit after 1917. I guess I'll just have to keep it with my Winchester Model of 1917 from November 1917.

Yours is a couple thousand into production. Only the very earliest didn't have patent dated stocks. But I have several in my database with #s near yours and they all shipped in 1917.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Before you do the ratchet peening, check and adjust any end shake like Wiregrass suggested. End shake can cause the timing to slow down a bit as the cylinder moves forward.

I emailed the contact at TriggerShims Brand Shim Kits last night. Lance responded this morning, confirming that his Rimfire J frame shims should fit my I frame.

The revolver should have time for a good soaking before they get here.

That's not the end shake bearing I was referring to. The end shake bearing goes on the center pin to move the cylinder forward or rearward to open or close the barrel to cylinder gap and adjust headspace. Since you are having to pull the cylinder rearward to open it, the front is likely dragging on the forcing cone. So, you will have to install one or more bearings to move it rearward and re-establish that front gap between .004" and .008". You can get some from MidwayUSA. And, you may not need to peen the ratchet after you get this problem fixed.

Nevermind. I found his endshake bearings. Good Luck!

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

First of all I would like to say thanks for posting as I really love the old S&Ws in general and the 32s in particular .Also thanks to all the guys who added information as I am in the learning process but hondo44 wow dude you just gave a mini course in fixing probabaly 80 percent of the old revolvers out there as short of something being actually broken like a spring or hammer nose the next biggest problem I see is the exact problem you just gave us an easy fix for .So thanks and I'll say it again iMPRESSIVE .

zipty6 and S&WsRsweet,

You're very welcome, my pleasure.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The end shake bearings arrived today. After adding 0.013 end shake is no longer an issue. They cylinder now opens properly as well. Thanks to the instructions from Hondo44, late carry up is also fixed. I can't wait to pick up a box of ammo and get this gun to the range.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed advice. I'm glad you all convinced me to keep this one