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08-05-2017, 05:10 PM
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Pre Mod 10, Ex-police gun
Hi Guys,
So, i recently picked this up at the LGS.. this is my first non-model number gun. Ser # S925735. 4 inch barrel. grips don't number to the gun but they aren't too far out. Has a Badge number on the back strap. Any info you can give me on it would be appreciated. Thanks.
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08-05-2017, 05:18 PM
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Given your indicated location, and the pattern of the number stamping, that's almost certainly an NYPD shield number. The gun overall looks to be in pretty good shape, especially the stocks, compared to some of my NYPD M&P's; that patrolman must have made detective pretty quick
The gun is most likely from late 1947; it still has the long-action hammer and is strictly speaking not a pre-Model 10 yet.
Last edited by Absalom; 08-05-2017 at 05:20 PM.
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08-05-2017, 05:20 PM
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1947 or 48 by the serial number. Badge number 11551, that would be a very large department.
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08-05-2017, 05:27 PM
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No way to ascertain provenance on your revolver without a letter.
I recently received a letter back on my 1940 M&P showing shipment of 1 revolver to a distributor in Sacramento Calif. The letter went on to state the revolver was a special order for the Sacramento PD. It is a standard, blued revolver with a 6" bbl. Beats me why they would only order one. Big Larry
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08-05-2017, 05:34 PM
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The serial number would indicate probable August 1947 shipment. A letter may or may not indicate that it was shipped to some PD. Just the gamble you take when you send in your $75. And it is not a pre-Model 10.
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08-05-2017, 05:44 PM
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FWIW, I own S 937988 and it shipped on 9/9/1947 exactly 3 years before me.
PS: I also have S 955509 that shipped in November of 1947 so it looks like they were shipping around 7500 per month assuming that all serial numbers between these two were used. That should put your S 925735 around July of 1947.
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Last edited by JSR III; 08-05-2017 at 05:55 PM.
Reason: added PS
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08-05-2017, 06:33 PM
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Thanks for all the quick replies. So, not a pre-10, what should i call it?
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08-05-2017, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSWnut
Thanks for all the quick replies. So, not a pre-10, what should i call it?
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S&W simply called it the Military & Police model from the end of WW I until the model numbers were introduced beginning in 1957. "Pre-Model 10" is just an unofficial collector term anyways.
If you're talking to collectors and precision seems important, adding "post-war" or "S-prefix" sometimes can be helpful.
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08-05-2017, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSWnut
Thanks for all the quick replies. So, not a pre-10, what should i call it?
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As previously stated, "pre-Model 10" is not S&W factory nomenclature and was not used by S&W. Most collectors use that term to describe only M&P revolvers which had the new short action beginnng at about SN S990xxx in early 1948, and ending with S&W's starting use of model numbers in 1958, at about SN C43xxxx. Calling it an S-series M&P or a postwar M&P is adequate identification for most. If an M&P has the short action (easily distinguished by the hammer shape) and is not stamped with a model number, then it is a pre-Model 10. Pretty much the same thing applies to other S&W revolver types during approximately the same time period.
Last edited by DWalt; 08-05-2017 at 08:30 PM.
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12-28-2017, 06:54 PM
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Hi everyone, I broke down and lettered my M&P. It shipped on September 5, 1947 and was delivered to the New York City Police Equipment Bureau. does anyone have any suggestions on how to track down info on the badge number?
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12-28-2017, 07:10 PM
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Here is the letter about my M&P.
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12-28-2017, 08:16 PM
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Get a hold of the NYPD offices and start from there
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12-28-2017, 08:29 PM
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That one is almost identical to my car gun except it's a year older and mine is not LE. People give me a fit for carrying such a great gun in my truck; but, it is great, and that's what I want if I need a gun when I'm on the road. I should mention, I keep mine in a gun rug in the glove box between the seats. . .just a little too nice to throw on the floor.
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12-28-2017, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSWnut
Hi everyone, I broke down and lettered my M&P. It shipped on September 5, 1947 and was delivered to the New York City Police Equipment Bureau. does anyone have any suggestions on how to track down info on the badge number?
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There is a member here, RMVivas, who had access to the files on these old guns. I haven’t seen him post in a while. He has a website which is linked below. He was able to give me the name and dates of service for the NYPD officer who had my M&P of the same vintage as yours.
Index Page
NYPD Guns Page - Main
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Last edited by sigp220.45; 12-28-2017 at 09:53 PM.
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12-28-2017, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSWnut
I broke down and lettered my M&P. It shipped on September 5, 1947 and was delivered to the New York City Police Equipment Bureau.
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I have about 40 examples in my database from S935xxx to S943xxx. I have ship dates on about half of those and all of them shipped in September, 1947. I've made a note to check with Roy or Don about the 300 that shipped to NYPD along with your gun. Some in that range went to distributors elsewhere and batches shipped to the same location often were not in numerical sequence.
Thanks for letting us know about this one and its letter. Among other things, it has enhanced my research into these unique revolvers.
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12-28-2017, 10:28 PM
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M&P
I was told yrs ago my "C" ser. # M&P was also from NYPD. Type looks like OP
Comments welcome except comments regarding the grips......lol
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12-29-2017, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by model17
I was told yrs ago my "C" ser. # M&P was also from NYPD. Type looks like OP
Comments welcome except comments regarding the grips......lol
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With a four- or five-digit number stamped on the backstrap in that location (on other, usually earlier guns, it was squeezed next to the serial on the butt), it’s very likely to be NYPD and that’s the officer’s shield number.
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12-29-2017, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSWnut
Hi everyone, I broke down and lettered my M&P. It shipped on September 5, 1947 and was delivered to the New York City Police Equipment Bureau. does anyone have any suggestions on how to track down info on the badge number?
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Can't Commissioner Reagan get that for you? Tom Selleck seems so competent in that role on TV...
Seriously,write to the Equipment Bureau there, include a copy of the Jinks letter and ask them.
If they can't help, maybe they'll tell you who to ask, like the personnel dept. But the Equipment people sold that officer the gun. They probably have the records.
Last edited by Texas Star; 12-29-2017 at 02:50 AM.
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12-29-2017, 09:27 AM
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Great gun well deserving of being lettered and provenance being established ,congratulations on the firearm and doing the provenance leg work
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12-29-2017, 11:49 AM
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This is one that is interesting to look at cost then vs cost now:
"What cost $42.10 in 1947 would cost $459.74 in 2016."
So the NYPD paid $42.10 per each in 1947, and if they could buy a comparable M&P (albeit in semi-auto) for $460 today, they would still be well-armed for the same cost, adjusted for inflation.
IIRC, the NYPD has Glocks now. I would expect their cost per unit is at least in the ballpark of $500, considering the quantities they buy.
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12-29-2017, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flash
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IIRC, the NYPD has Glocks now. I would expect their cost per unit is at least in the ballpark of $500, considering the quantities they buy.
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NYPD officers purchase their own guns. They have several to choose from but most companies offer what's called a "Blue Label" program where guns bought by police officers are cheaper. For Glocks it's roughly $350 - $400 range
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12-29-2017, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flash
IIRC, the NYPD has Glocks now. I would expect their cost per unit is at least in the ballpark of $500, considering the quantities they buy.
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Having been involved in a couple large purchases of Glock in my time, albeit substantially less than what NYPD would purchase, I would imagine their cost per unit was closer to south of $300, including six magazines . . .
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12-30-2017, 06:51 PM
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I have an S903xxx that shipped in April of 47.
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