Ok I need some help on these custom target stocks. I believe these to be I-Frame extended target stocks with small brass medallions, made from Zebrawood. I've only seen one other set that had this style of checkering with arrows pointing inward towards the diamond. That other set was described as belonging to Sanderson. The checkering seems more consistent with Roper? But then again I don't see the rectangular jig marks on the inside of the panels like other Ropers. Does anyone have a set like this or know who most likely made these? Much thanks!


Comparison

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Beau
SWCA #3106 - SWHF #643

Can't offer any other insight other than I WANT THEM!

Have you tried them on an I or K frame grip frame?

There's no I frame grip frame of that shape. Even the model of 1953 NEW I frame/NEW J frame sq butt grip frame is not shaped like that.

I think they are much more recent manufacture than the Roper or Sanderson era, even though the medallions are the gold plated recessed style of 1910-1920.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I don't own an I-frame or J-frame currently. They are about the size of K-frame magnas in total size when side by side. I know you can install a j-frame grip on a I-frame (not vice versa), but these grips look too small to be J frames. Is there two sizes of I-frames, I-Frame and "improved" I-frame??? If so did the earlier have a shorter grip frame?

Jim, could you please elaborate on your comments about "no grip frame of that shape", as these appear to be a standard square butt shape.

They have a serial number 4892 carved lightly on the inside of the panels. I bought them because I thought they may belong on a 1891 Single Shot.

I don't own an I-frame or J-frame currently.

Send them to me I'll try them out and get back to you.......eventually.

I do think they are neat and with the S&W medallions would think they have to fit something S&W.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

I too think they are of "much more recent manufacture"----because of the seemingly very precise inletting.

Ralph Tremaine

I'm "mostly" inclined to agree.

The area I keep going back to though is around the trigger guard

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

I get a recent European vibe from them, probably because of the coarser checking. Interesting that the right cheek piece has been dimpled to fit over a rounded sideplate screw head of the prewar type. Incident light seems to reveal a polyurethane finish on all surfaces, which again suggests more recent manufacture to me. Wouldn't most makers of older fine stocks oil or wax them?

The frame-wrapping design would not reveal a serial number on either the butt or the forestrap, the two places where I-frames would be numbered depending on the intended stocks at the time they left the factory.

The arrowhead or modified fleur-de-lis intrusions into the checking field from top and bottom are seen on some Colt stocks from before WWI. I may have seen older custom stocks on one or two S&W revolvers with similar features, but not often.

Nice grain mirroring. It would be good to identify the maker if we possibly can.

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David Wilson

I also believe the stocks are of recent manufacture, but they are still a great pair of stocks.

Bill

I'm no expert on grips, but don't believe they are from any popular vintage maker.

They look newer, and the one medallion even appears bent, probably from removal and installation into new grips. Then the rest of the checkering and arrow pattern is rather poor quality and not symmetrical. At least in the pics.

It was probably somebody's home made project at one time. They look neat, but I wouldn't be shelling out Sanderson money for them.

1. There are two sizes of I frame and two sizes of J frame grip frame sizes:

Pre war I, post war I, and Improved I grip frames (and Single Shots), and the Baby J grip frame up to 1953 are the same size and interchangeable.
The Model of 1953 New I frame and New J frame grip frames are also the same size, 1/8” longer than pre 1953 I and J grip frames.

2. The I/J square butt grip frame never had square corners like K/N frames, they’ve always had very rounded corners.

3. Also you'll notice the interior grip frame cut out is dimpled for a strain screw near the butt. I and J frames no longer had a leaf spring or strain screw before the first square grip frame was introduced on the Model of 1953 NEW I and New J frames. The coil spring replaced the leaf spring on I frames in late 1951 and the J frame was introduced with the coil spring in 1950.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I do not believe Roper or Sanderson put medallions in their grips. At least I've not seen any. Furthermore, I've never seen a pair of factory grips with those arrow-head pointers.
On early I-frame extension stocks, that area was just a point, not an arrow-head. Also, I've never seen any zebra-wood stocks attributed to Roper or Sanderson, although Sanderson did work with exotic woods.

I have no knowledge of who might have made these, but it wouldn't hurt to ask Keith Brown if he has any ideas.

Regards, Mike Priwer

The inletting looks like K frame to me. As mentioned above, no I or J frame stocks had the profile to match those stocks. Even square butt I and J frames were more rounded on the corners that actually having a "square" profile.

As for the type of wood, I've seen some Goncalo Alves with pronounced figuring and coloration that would appear at a glance to be Zebra wood.

All that said, I'm only an hour from Nashville if those are causing you too much anguish.

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

I have seen a set of K Frame Ropers with Medallions and I believe Clubgunfan has a set with Medallions as well.If they where done by Gange originally or added later is unknown of course.

Nice looking grips, the maker did a good job of book matching the wood. When you figure out what they fit be sure to post pictures of them on the said revolver.

Wow lots of good feedback guys! Thanks for your insight. These ones are stumping me, I know it doesn't help that I don't own any small frame guns (only N-frames).

I tend to agree this set is more "modern" and they installed the vintage medallions. However, these stocks have the look, feel, smell of older grips and the inletting isn't as sharp in person. The checkering is also quite small and better than what is shown in the photos. These are very tiny grips!!!

As mentioned above, they are recessed/relieved on the inside for the front mainspring strain screw which was later removed on I/J frames. Also, with serial number "4892" may help narrow what model or time frame of gun these were made for?

Rule out K frames. Here is a side by side comparison with a K-magna and a .32 DA Grip. The height of the grip frame these would fit appears to be 2-1/8" approximately.

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Beau
SWCA #3106 - SWHF #643

They're for a 3rd Model .22 Ladysmith M frame, Smith's smallest Hand Ejector, shown with a Triple Lock 44.



3rd Model 2 ¼” Lady Smith with 500 Magnum

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim, I think you called it. These stocks would convert he miniature stocks on a square-butt Ladsymith Third Model target revolver to something approximating the size of K-frame magnas. By itself that might be enough to increase the accuracy of such a gun for a shooter with average size hands.

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David Wilson

First off I have to say that I saw this auction just a little late, and was cursing myself for not seeing them earlier. Whoever made them I think they are something you should be proud to own, and you got them at a great price.

I also think they are of recent manufacture. Have you asked the person on ebay you bought them from? They appeared to have a lot of stocks that all looked to have been more recent make, even though they were old fashioned. I kind of got the impression that they were selling some woodworker's stuff. The more I looked at them in the pictures the more I thought I was looking at a talented hobbyist's work.

I'll try to reach out to the seller and see if he knows who made them. Certainly unique stocks for a unique frame size.

Seller said "I bought much of the Doug Baily collection's parts. He collected Lady Smiths and other small frame revolvers."

Well I was definitely lucky to have snagged these before my fellow eBay hawks here! That being said, I bought these to keep thinking they may be for a model I'd like to own in my collection like an 1891 single shot. When I got them, they were obviously smaller than I expected and I'm 6'6" with large hand size so I don't think I'll be adding an M-Frame to my stable anytime soon. It's been a lucky year for me, I've added several great sets to my collection. I'm nearly complete with my N-frame collection.

SixgunStrumpet, they can be yours if you want to trade on that King sighted 1917 you have!!!

I don't see anything that would make me automatically say recently made, the screw and estucheon look to have a bit of patina, and Zebrawood typically does not darken a great deal over time, decades I'm talking not centuries. And that's very nice work, especially considering the very small size, much much more difficult to work in that scale compared to K or N frames. I've seen original Roper grips with medallions, not common, like Ropers with finger grooves, but they are out there. Zebrawood is chippy and clean in-letting work is difficult to achieve, doing it in grips this small is quite an accomplishment. I checkered an original smooth set of Lady Smith grips once, it gave me a headache.

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kbgrips.com

Keith,

Sorry about the headache but you did an outstanding job for my son Matt...they're pictured above!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Hello Jim , it's okay I healed up alright ! Just pointing out that it's a different level of concentration to get the job done. They look good on the gun.

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kbgrips.com

They also do a superb job of improving the 'gripping' of those tiny stocks for shooting!

He doesn't attempt to pass them off as the rare original factory checked stocks but I have to say they're an excellent recreation. As is all of your work I've seen.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

They look like the work of Mike Poulin to me.