New member - with an older S&W 22

I bought what I think is a fairly old I frame 22 S&W so my wife can plink with it. It seems like a pretty nice gun with a few scars. It has some unusual stocks on it that seem to be target stocks - I'm wondering if they could be original?

It also has two sets of numbers on it. The frame and crane have 11194 stamped. And the frame and rear of the cylinder have 399405 stamped on both. Any idea of the year of manufacture?

It seems real good mechanically with a nice barrel and cylinder. The left side of the frame below the cylinder has been screwed with at some time with some grinding marks and was probably touched up with cold blue. Unfortunate as it would probably be hard to restore that.








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Just curious about the old gun. It was laying in Gander Mountains used gun case for awhile at an absolutely ridiculous price. Finally got down to the last day of gun sales before closing and with 60% discounts I decided I hated to see the old gun laying there destined to be shipped to who knows where. And my wife was wanting an a 22 revolver she could shoot.

Thanks

Dan

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! That's a .22/32 Heavy Frame Target revolver from around 1924. I believe the stocks are original, but an expert will be along and verify that. The number in the yoke is an assembly number used to get fitted parts back together after the blue finish was applied. The SN is on the front gripstrap. Your wife should love shooting that. Congratulations!

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

It's called the .22/32 Heavy Frame Target, but the frame is lighter than the heavier K-22 target revolvers of the 1930s. The first one left S&W in 1911. I list one very close to 399405 which is 3992xx which shipped in 7/1924. I don't know what you paid, but these are fairly desirable S&Ws in that condition.

If you remove the stocks, the right side panel should have the S/N written in pencil. It may be very hard to see, but use a flashlight at angles. It could possibly be stamped, but I think they were written at that time period. You have a very nice condition one, but would caution you to use standard velocity ammo, that's what it was designed for and what will usually be the most accurate.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

They are fun to shoot too, although the sights or a little hard to see if you have "old eyes". Your wife will like it, thats a nice present. Mind saying what you paid?

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Jim
Many K and N Frames

WRT the stocks, take them off and see if the gun's serial number is penciled on the inside of the right panel. It may be hard to see after 90 years. If it's there, they are original to the gun.

(Ha. Mr. Richard posted while I was typing. Great minds and all that...)

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Thanks for the replies. I pulled the stocks off and did find the penciled number. I can easily make out the 399 although the last three are pretty difficult to make out. I can make 405 out of them if I try, but couldn't swear to it with a hand on the bible. Maybe with a bit stronger light.

Gander had it in there for a long time at what I figured was a crazy price of almost $1,200. It ended up at $479 and it was their last hours before shipping out everything left over. and they only had about 7 or 8 pistols of any type, new & used, left in their display case. I just decided that although I have no idea what the old girl is really worth - I just couldn't leave it sitting there. It was one of those sort of off-the-cuff, not much thought involved - purchases.
November 1924 - pretty interesting - dates back to the approximate date of my wife's Dad and my Dads birth date. Her Dad had a similar K22 I believe that this sort of reminds her of.

On the sights - yes, target sights today have changed a lot for the better. Thanks again.

You "stole" it at $479 ! It's worth twice that in a minute ! Congrats ! Ed.

Great find and great buy.

About 6 years after it was made, there was an improvement; the cyl chambers were recessed, making the cyl slightly longer.

Are the cyl chambers recessed?
Your cyl looks longer with a reduced space at the rear. It was common to have early models like yours retrofitted with the new cyls after introduction in 1935.

The refitted frame lug where you show grinding and touch up had to be 'fitted' to the longer cyl. Or the frame lug may just have needed repair/changing.

The frame and yoke (crane) # 11194 is just a factory assembly #; it's also on the inside of the sideplate.

Happy shooting, you bought your wife a very accurate and right sized 22 for her to shoot! Enjoy.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Recessed chambers on the .22/32 began around serial number 525600 in 12/31

Welcome to the Forum!! You certainly came in with a wonderful little gun!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Thanks -

The chambers are not recessed. Also the serial number is on the cylinder at the back. I'm thinking it's original. The barrel to cylinder gap is very tight - as in about as little as it can be and not drag. That may have something to do with the cylinder fit & appearance. S&W seems to like doing that for some reason. I have a model 63 SS Kit gun .22 I bought in the 70s and it would lock up at the barrel after shooting several cylinders of rounds. I had to send it to S&W to fix. Still pretty tight even when they returned.

Dan

Thanks for the replies - always nice to know I didn't take a beating on the price. I stopped by early on the last day and I noticed it was one of the few pistol/revolvers left. I told my wife that if she was still wanting a .22 revolver to shoot, this would probably be a good one. She isn't comfortable with semi-autos. So while everyone else was cleaning out their shotguns and rifles I stood in line until I could finally snap it up.

Nice catch!!

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

Welcome to the Smith & Wesson Forum from Arizona. Great start!

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

I took my old gun to the range the other day and fired two cylinders of Federal standard LRs in it (1200 fps). I had some difficulty extracting the fired cases. They extract but drag quite a bit. I spent quite a bit of time trying to check the cylinder, fired cases and cylinder bores for any sign of swelling - maybe some one fired some high velocity stud in it before - but nothing is readily apparent. Found another post by Google of a similar incident with the same model old gun.

Otherwise it shoots fine and is quite accurate. I don't plan to shoot it much but would like to on occasion. So I guess I should stick with sub-sonic 22 LRs probably? Or maybe 22 longs?

If what you were shooting truly is 1200 fps, you were not using Standard Velocity ammo. That was High Velocity stuff. Most "standard velocity" .22 ammo will be rated at 1070 fps or less. Do NOT use high velocity ammo in that revolver. Lots of manufacturers provide SV .22 ammo. CCI and Aguila are just two that are quite common and easy to obtain. I would also recommend that you stick with Long Rifle. Anything else will have a tendency to build up carbon rings such that it would be more difficult to subsequently use LR ammo.

As for the sticky extraction, S&W revolvers often have this "problem". Be sure to thoroughly scrub out each charge hole in the cylinder, using a good solvent and bronze brushes. Prior to shooting, run a patch through the charge holes to remove any excess oil that could be present. If this fails to cure the problem, there are other measures that can be taken.

Happy shooting and enjoy that .22/32. I certainly enjoy mine.

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SWCA 3297 SWHF 583

Welcome. Chambers are tight and if there is even a hint of pitting, the casings get stuck often on my HFTs I actually take along a small wooden dowel for such issues.

I am curious about your stocks and if they have any evidence of a lead pencil marking on the right one? They are often impossible to read, but I have markings on both mine. As for dating, I have 360,XXX that shipped in 1923 and 253,XXX that shipped in 1917. Neither of my cylinders are recessed.

Those stocks look to be the right vintage, but my 1923 gun has Regulation Police style stocks, with a 1917 patent date stamped on the butt, and does have the serial number written on the inside. This style stock requires a "shelf" on the back of the butt-frame to accept the RP style, whereas your style does not have the shelf. I am interested in which butt-frame you have, since these two guns can tell us collectors when this change occurred.

You have a very nice 22-32 HFT and a revolver that does not show up for sale often.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

See post #7.

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Get off my lawn!

• Prior to WW I, .22/32 Heavy Frame Target models were supplied with two screw extended target stocks as standard. After WW I the Reg Police stocks with notched back strap became standard. By ~1920 all stocks including on 22/32 HFTs, changed to rounded, convex stock circle stocks w/o medallions and rounded, convex stock circle target stocks w/o medallions as optional until 1923. Above serial number ~258000 (right after WW I), the standard HFT stocks became Regulation Police stocks on a rebated grip frame, at first with deep dish gold plated brass medallions in the late 'teens. Checkered two-screw extension target stocks with gold plated brass medallions in ‘dished’ stock circle tops were optional until 1920, w/o medallions after that.

• Aug. 29, 1923 change order, replaced .22/32 HFT sq butt RP convex top stocks, returning to 2 screw target stocks as standard but with convex tops, and w/o medallions. And from the original Paine bead front sight w/U-Notch to a Patridge w/square notch rear. The next day, the same was ordered for the 32 & 38 Target Models and the Single Shot Model as well, S&W 1857-1945 N&J pg. 235.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

So did they eliminate they eliminate the rebated butt-frame when they went back to 2 screw stocks?

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Yes they did. Mine from 1924 and others I've seen from the period following the change did not have the rebated grip frame.

But I wouldn't be surprised to find a few still rebated under the target stocks once standard again. Or the RP stocks with rebate likely continued thru some transition period after the change date; and maybe both.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks - I can switch to 22 longs - I need to do something. Barrel and chambers are excellent and clean. I took my SS kit gun .22 out and shot some of the same Federal loads and the fired casings practically fall out of the bores when I open the cylinder. Can't pick up any differences between the chambers in the two guns with a caliper but they can really only gage the mouth and exit.

I'd suggest you throughly clean the chambers. A trick I learned way back from a gun mag... before shooting to wipe down the chambers, bore & cylinder window... and exterior metal surfaces with Break Free CLP. Followed by a dry patch. So only a film is left. Lead & powder residue is on top of the film & will almost wipe off with a clean paper towel.
(My PD Armorer saw me do it & adopted it... for the Dept. as we practiced with lead bullet reloads.)
You may have to clean chambers more frequently.

You did really well on this classic. Any of us would love to own.

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

The use of .22 Longs is inadvisable-----given my recollection of the nits and lice of the matter.

The rifling rate for .22 Long Rifle (that the gun was designed for) is one thing. The rate for .22 Short is another---in view of its shorter bullet. AND----a .22 Long is a Long Rifle case with a Short bullet---both by name AND length----right?.

All of which is to say the accuracy will suffer. As already noted by several others, standard velocity .22 Long Rifle ammo will provide the best results.

Ralph Tremaine

I went down to Academy Sports and had them run through all their .22 ammo (why is all .22 ammo kept behind the counter and everything else is out in the open????). Finally bought some Remington 1050 fps subsonic 48 grain LRs (being clearance out). Everything else they had in LR was 1200 or faster. As soon as I get a chance I'll try them out.

You might want to try std velocity shorts. Balance of bullet weight & powder.

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

Seems I'm getting some advice to avoid standard longs so I assume it would apply to shorts also(?). I guess part of the theory is a short or long could be loaded to the same pressure levels as standard LRs but unlikely to high velocity LR pressures I would think. I have some subsonic, hollow point shorts I've used in a Kit 22 and even single shot style in my Ruger automatic to dispatch armadillos. They might be an option for some casual plinking.

The actual extraction problem is probably due to tight chambers. S&W 22 lr revolvers are known for this. Best correction is to use a 22lr finishing reamer to open your chambers to normal sized chambers. You can turn the reamer by hand and they are available for rental at places like 4D reamers. I used a finishing reamer on all of my 5 S&W 22 revolvers and the reamer removed a small amount from all 5 cylinders

I seem to be out of sub-sonic or standard velocity 22 shorts or at least I can't lay hands on them right now. I'm shooting them in a Model M "Ladysmith Second Change" chambered in the obsolete 22 S&W. c. 1906-1910


I have Rem subsonic 22LR on hand.

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs