22/32 It IS a BEKEART! :D

S&W ucla · #1 08-14-2017, 02:18 PM

Got my letter in today, thanks to S&WHF and Mr. Jinks. It IS a Bekeart

After firing pin saga, got one that works from Jack First. Not exact, but functional. Test fired and makes nice indents on rim, no misfires. When it cools down outside, I'll give it a range workout with some Std Vel loads. Cannot see a number on grips, so maybe replaced? Letter says front sight is patridge, but it is a Paine? with U rear blade. Thanks all for your help. Made the trip to the post office today a little better, finding the letter to offset the usual bills, lol.

UPDATE: Had a rain and it got below 90* so I went to the farm. 6 shots CCI subsonic @50'. I hope I'm still chootin good when I'm 105yrs old!

Masterpiece · #2 08-14-2017, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S&W ucla

Got my letter in today, thanks to S&WHF and Mr. Jinks. It IS a Bekeart

S&W ucla,

Congrats...Looks like (JSRIII...James Redfield) has another one to add to the existing data of the 2 already known to have shipped to Bekeart June 3rd,1912!!

As an aside..I'm sure he'll also appreciate knowing there were 50 of these .22/32 HFT's in that same shipment!!

DCWilson · #3 08-14-2017, 03:33 PM

Patridge sights, whose blades are about twice as wide as what we find on predecessor front sights, did not become the standard sight on S&W target revolvers until 1923 but may have been available on special order a little earlier. That said, I have never seen a true Patridge sight on an I-frame target revolver that dates to 1922 or earlier.

Looks like a Paine sight to me as well. I bet the eyes saw "Paine" but the fingers on the keyboard got through the first two letters and filled in the rest from long habit.

Hondo44 · #4 08-14-2017, 03:37 PM

Bravo, no better news than that!

Glad you got it shooting again!

For future reference and to help others, what tinkering did it take to get the Jack First firing pin to work?

S&W ucla · #5 08-14-2017, 03:39 PM

One other quirk in the letter I'm unsure about. I've read about 3000 grips being numbered on the bottom. The letter states the first 5000 were so numbered. ? Anyone seen a grip # over 3000? Thanks

Hondo44 · #6 08-14-2017, 03:53 PM

The 5000 sounds like another typo. The 3000 # is well documented.

However, JSRIII has documented the #s and there's none known above #2582.

If you send letter back, Roy will correct both items.

S&W ucla · #7 08-14-2017, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Bravo, no better news than that!

Glad you got it shooting again!

For future reference and to help others, what tinkering did it take to get the Jack First firing pin to work?

While dimensions were slightly different, where hammer strikes is longer on First FP. That doesn't seem to matter, protrusion is correct and makes nice indents. As it works, I'm not going back in, but the spring could have been stretched a little or replaced as it is a little weak. It's due to taper forward from shoulder being wider on original than First FP. Stretching or replacement spring would make rebound better. I may have confused my self, but I hope I explained it! LOL

crsides · #8 08-14-2017, 04:23 PM

congrats on a great find.

Charlie

Hondo44 · #9 08-14-2017, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S&W ucla

While dimensions were slightly different, where hammer strikes is longer on First FP. That doesn't seem to matter, protrusion is correct and makes nice indents. As it works, I'm not going back in, but the spring could have been stretched a little or replaced as it is a little weak. It's due to taper forward from shoulder being wider on original than First FP. Stretching or replacement spring would make rebound better. I may have confused my self, but I hope I explained it! LOL

Looks like they made the firing pin shorter (stouter) and the back end longer to compensate for it.

Thank you!

JSR III · #10 09-20-2017, 11:19 AM

Sorry I'm a little late to the party.

Quote:

Letter says front sight is patridge, but it is a Paine? with U rear blade.

One must understand that the letter writing process is done using letter templates. The basic historical information is the same in each letter for any given model. The date and name of the requesting party are changed or added and the specifics of the gun are changed to reflect the gun inquired about. Sometimes errors are made and a specific such as front sight are left from the prior letter and a Paine front sight becomes a Patridge front sight or visa versa. I would return the letter and ask for a correction.

Quote:

One other quirk in the letter I'm unsure about. I've read about 3000 grips being numbered on the bottom. The letter states the first 5000 were so numbered. ? Anyone seen a grip # over 3000? Thanks

This too is an error in the template. If you look in Roy's book, History of Smith and Wesson, on page 151, at the bottom of the second paragraph it clearly states that 3,000 is the number. It goes on to state that 292 guns went to Bekeart from the first run and we now know this to be 294.

The last paragraph goes on to state that it was not until 1914 that the factory scheduled any further production and we know that this is not correct based on the shipments that went out in the 163,XXX range in 1912.

Quote:

Congrats...Looks like (JSRIII...James Redfield) has another one to add to the existing data of the 2 already known to have shipped to Bekeart June 3rd,1912!!

That is correct and I also have 5 that shipped to him on 5/18/1912 from the same basic serial block. For those that keep track I list them all below.

163,101-5/18
163,198-5/18 #1168
163,238-5/18 #1192
163,248-5/18 # 1106
163,341-5/18 # 1164

163,662-6/3 # 1615
163,698-6/3
163,864-6/3

Again, in over 2,000 entries in my database, I show no stock assembly sequence numbers (those imprinted on the left stock bottom) to be higher than 2582 and those all fall within the 490 guns shipped to M.W. Robinson in the first 3 months of 1914.

Quote:

That said, I have never seen a true Patridge sight on an I-frame target revolver that dates to 1922 or earlier.

I actually own a Bekeart shipped gun from the 6/30/1911 shipment with serial number 138,289 and stock number 289 that has a Patridge front sight and a square notch rear sight. Although the Paine was standard for the .22/32 at that time, the Patridge front sight was still available and could be ordered that way. I have several guns in my database in the first 1,050 that have the Patridge front sight. Yes, this could be an upgrade or change applied at a later date but the guns are not marked as having been returned for this addition so I must conclude they are original.