Hello Guys,
Very interesting forum. My compliments
I'm writing from Italy, I found in the loft of my dead uncle a revolver S&W. I think it would be bought in fifties, when my uncle was in Venezuela. In the box were some cartridges .38 short colt. and cartidges marked .38 SPL but long like a .38 short. May be they are .38 SPL cases, cutted!?
I tested both but I found out a strange inaccuracy in shooting. May be revolver is old and damaged but it looks good.
So I thought this revolver is not chambered for .38 short but for .38 S&W.
How can I do to verify it? I suppose it can be dangerous to shoot .38 S&W in a revolver chambered for .38 short.
My impression is .38 short are small in the chamber, there is an excessive play. I have a S&W 357 Magnum and the play is not so big.
I would not fire it again until you know for sure what it's chambered for.
The .38 S&W should not fit if the chamber is actually made for .38 S&W Special. It is actually a little fatter than the longer .38 S&W Special.
The .38 S&W Special is more powerful than the shorter .38 S&W and will damage a gun that is chambered for the shorter cartridge.
I'm going to go out on the proverbial limb here and speculate that given the gun is in Europe and acquired shortly after WWll, that we are looking at a Victory or BSR chambered in .38 S&W. photos and or SN would be needed to confirm my suspicions.
If I understand correctly, the OP does not have .38 Special rounds, but rounds with .38 Special headstamps cut to a caselength identical to the .38 Short rounds he also has. Since the .38 Short Colt was the Special's "parent" load, that is feasible. If those loads are loose in his old gun, but not in his .357, that would make sense and fit with epj's assumption. The .38 Short's case length is about the same as the .38 S&W, just a bit shorter, so those would fit an unconverted gun.
Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! We need to know what model of S&W you have...top break or hand ejector. S&W made the .38 caliber top breaks chambered for .38 S&W and the hand ejectors chambered for .38 S&W and .38 S&W Special. I think it is pretty well determined that your gun is .38 S&W. If it is a hand ejector, the caliber will be stamped on the right side of the barrel. Some pictures would help us help you.
Am I missing something here. The talk all goes from 38 sw cartrdge to 38 special. Wouldn't a 38 sw long be in between the 2 in length and be a hair fatter like the 38sw? 38 sw long was a fairly popular cartridge back in that time frame. Was it not? Either way the guys here need more info on the gun. Pictures serial numbers, too much focus on the cartridges.
Thank you very much for answers. I post pictures....
And the winner is .... epj.
Nice BSR with British commercial proofs. Pre-Victory from spring 1942. Likely unconverted, but we won't know for sure until tested with a live round of .38 Special.
Not sure about the finish; really too late for that shiny blue. The stocks are aftermarket, too. I don't recognize the logo.
So that ammo is safe to shoot in the gun either way. The K-frame, designed for .38 Special pressures, was overbuilt for the .38 S&W anyways, and a standard .38 Short Colt would be even weaker. However, as you discovered, the diameter is slightly smaller, so you will not get benchrest accuracy.
That is a WWII pre-Victory British Service Revolver. It chambers .38 S&W / .38 Webley MKII. You should be able to find those cartridges in Italy. The .38 cartridges you are using are smaller in diameter for that gun than the correct cartridge.
Maybe that is what he had available to work with and reload. Or, he may never have understood what caliber was right for the gun but those fit. Anyway, it looks like he took good care of it. Have fun shooting it!
Sometimes, when .38 S&W ctgs not available, people would trim .38 Special cases to the shorter length. This made them shootable, but not quite correct, as the .38 Special is slightly smaller in diameter, the same diameter as .38 Colt (Short and Long). As suggested above, you might more easily find .380 Mk II in Europe, as they were the standard British revolver cartridge, and are identical to .38 S&W, except for bullet weight, which is of no consequence in this caliber.
Benvenuto al foro, e molta buona fortuna !
Does it still say "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" on the top strap? If it really shipped in April 1942 and went to Europe, it really would have to. You have not mentioned that; if it does not, it would have been removed, and that confirms the possibility that this blue is a commercial re-finish.
I don't think there is any question that it has been refinished. Whether the chambers have been elongated for .38 Special, we cannot be sure.
.38 S&W ammunition would probably be in short supply in most places in Europe, and it would not be at all surprising that some users of .38 S&W revolvers there would shorten .38 Special cases to fit. I have fired .38 Short Colt in .38 S&W revolvers, and it works OK, even though a little undersized for the .38 S&W chamber.
I may be wrong, as I am sometimes, but I think the Britts called it 38-200. For 38 caliber, 200 grain bullet.
Hm, yes, they might and probably did, although at what point the British actually called it that is a somewhat nebulous issue. You're right about the bullet weight, although by WW II that was down to 178 grains and a jacketed bullet. Different story.
I have yet to come across a contemporary British source that uses that label, although I'm sure it must exist.
One finds .380/200, .38/380 (this found stamped on Canadian-issue guns), .380 Mk I and Mk IIz. And of course, just .38, as stamped on Enfields and Webleys.
But from WW II or earlier, the only piece of evidence I'm aware of are the Colt Official Police's made in that caliber for the British Purchasing Commission mostly in 1941, which have 38-200 on the barrel from the factory.
For S&W, the letters elegantly sidestep the issue, calling it the .38/200 British Service Model, caliber .38 Smith & Wesson.
I found this interesting attached picture on the internet. Looks like Kynoch might have called it .38/200, although we don't know when.
Does it still say "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" on the top strap? If it really shipped in April 1942 and went to Europe, it really would have to. You have not mentioned that; if it does not, it would have been removed, and that confirms the possibility that this blue is a commercial re-finish.
Hm, yes, they might and probably did, although at what point the British actually called it that is a somewhat nebulous issue. You're right about the bullet weight, although by WW II that was down to 178 grains and a jacketed bullet. Different story.
I have yet to come across a contemporary British source that uses that label, although I'm sure it must exist.
One finds .380/200, .38/380 (this found stamped on Canadian-issue guns), .380 Mk I and Mk IIz. And of course, just .38, as stamped on Enfields and Webleys.
But from WW II or earlier, the only piece of evidence I'm aware of are the Colt Official Police's made in that caliber for the British Purchasing Commission mostly in 1941, which have 38-200 on the barrel from the factory.
For S&W, the letters elegantly sidestep the issue, calling it the .38/200 British Service Model, caliber .38 Smith & Wesson.
I found this interesting attached picture on the internet. Looks like Kynoch might have called it .38/200, although we don't know when.
Anyway, just some musings.
This is a remarkable photo, explaining much about this cartridge and its variations. Thanks for posting.
Then that is a fairly strong indication it has been refinished (which is apparent from the pictures). The property stamp on the topstrap is often very lightly stamped, and the buffing and polishing of the frame performed prior to bluing could easily remove it.
Buffalo bore loads a .38 S&W 125 gr. to 1050fps. Now this may be out of a 4", it didn't say, but it's a respectable load for the .38s&W
I spoze there is some mechanism to get US made ammo there, although I imagine it would be very expensive. Buffalo Bore seems to always provide the data on the actual guns they used in testing.
Found it for the .38 S&W load, you have to click on the title in the listing page that you go to when you select the caliber.
➤ 1030 fps -- S&W Regulation Police 6 inch
➤ 977 fps -- S&W Regulation Police 4 inch
➤ 926 fps -- S&W Regulation Police 4 inch
➤ 874 fps -- S&W 2 inch
Which cartridges for my old S&W .38?
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