Quote:
Originally Posted by SBRAR15
Yes it has the made in USA on the right side forgot to mention that .. any info is appreciated .
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This may be more than you wanted but here's my 1917 summary:
1917 PRODUCTION SUMMARY
Military 1917s are in the #1 thru # 169959 (the estimated last military #) range but with only 163,635 revolvers completed and delivered by or in 1918, and approximately 7,300 revolvers were delivered partially completed and were not counted in the 163,635 figure. As usual with S&W, revolvers were not completed in order of their serial numbers and all numbers were not used. All were shipped to Springfield Armory.
Both S&W (7300 frames) and Colt were allowed to purchase M1917 revolvers left over when their rebuild contracts were terminated at the end of WWII.* (Pate, see below for full text.)
Most early WWI 1917s are marked "GHS" in a circle, (Gilbert H. Stewart), Gov’t inspector, left side frame up near the hammer serial number range 1-42000. There’s also a GHD Guy H. Drewry inspector from 1930-1957 (with various increasing ranks in front of his name), who was in charge of the Hartford Ordnance District and under whose authority and name, ordnance contractors stationed at the S&W factory inspected guns both for Lend-lease and for ASP (Army Supply Program) contracts.
Middle range guns are marked with a flaming bomb, beginning c. #42000 to April 1918.
Late war time produced guns are marked in various locations with an eagle head over an "S" followed by a number like S1, S2, S3, S4, S6, S9, S24, S27, S34, etc., from April 1918 to war’s end. These marks are inspector marks used on Military guns which are also marked "United States Property” on the underside of the barrel.
The butt of the gun will have a two line serial number (when over 3 digits) and U.S. Army Model 1917 in four lines as well as a lanyard ring (which is the earliest version; polished and case colored, not sandblasted and blued). “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” is roll stamped under the front end of the barrel.
Earliest have smooth, concave round top stocks and circular hammer grooves up to about #15,000. Although, many have been observed sporadically up to the #20,000 range. As with all things S&W, there is seldom a specific serial number cut off. Deletion of the stocks w/concave top and the hammer grooves were of the earliest changes.
Most 1917 military issue have round top straps and a U notch rear sight. Later built frames with early #s have been observed with flat top strap and square notch rear sight; example #113934. It is not known when this change was initiated. However, cumulative wisdom is that the flat-top strap with Sq notch rear sight revision came to the N-frame in the 1926/1927 time frame.
War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos nor even commercial models (nor did any hand ejectors following the war until ~ 1920).
ARSENAL REBUILD: If there’s an extra large stamped # up to 5 digits (sometimes with an R or S) in the yoke, yoke cut out, under the barrel, or all three places, it’s an arsenal # indicating an arsenal rebuilt gun. The R may be found on the frame left side as well. Examples:
Tryig to identify 1917 Revolver &
Please help identify my 1917 Hand Ejector .45
“WW I U.S. 1917 hammers and triggers are slightly different from later N frame parts.” Lee Jarrett.
And will work in triple locks.
Cylinder hold open detent:
In my experience military 1917s had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. The cyl hold open detent went away on all frames after WW II with the usual few exceptions that had frames/yokes made pre war. It's been reported that some 1917s do not have the detent as a war time expedient, but of the hundreds of 1917s I've seen all did or at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost. Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room.
COMMERCIAL MODELS
“The factory added the 1917 as a regular cataloged commercial model in Catalog D-2 which was issued in Jan, 1921.
Same basic gun as a 1917 Army. That's not to say there were none sold into the commercial market before that; there are 'no rules' that apply.
Features of Commercial models post WW I and 1920:
No “Army” grip mark, or “US Property” barrel mark. (Note: SCSW-3 states some coml models can be found with barrel mark.)
Some have no MADE IN U.S.A.
5-1/2" in cal 45 ACP, but the barrel reads "S.&W. D.A. 45".
Bright Blue.
Butt Swivel.
MADE IN U.S.A. right side frame.
S&W logo left side [except after 12/1936; large logo on side plate], checkered non-medallion, convex top stocks during the 1920s. [Flat silver medallions thru the 1930s and war years.]”
The lowest Com’l model in the SWCA database = #167382 shipped Oct, 1922.” Lee Jarrett (But see #15537 below.)
Smooth triggers until serrated triggers order change March 18, 1929.
Com'l 1917 models have a serial # parallel to the butt like all other Com’l models (except those I frames stamped on the front grip strap). The butt # on all pre war guns will read right side up muzzle to the right.
Rare 1917 Commercial Target less than 5 known Jim Fisher’s Genuine Coml Target #181982; one of five known. (see also “1917 factory targets” message)
A 1917 Coml #179698 shipped 9/20/27.
In Dec 1936, logo ordered moved to the sideplate on the right and made larger.
In SCSW reportedly some few of these 1930 rd top frames (less than 1000) were also reportedly assembled into Transitional Commercial models in serial range S209792-S210782, many of which shipped in the 1946-48 period.
Iskra’s Sn 2099xx (no "S" prefix).
SMITH & WESSON DA 45 MODEL 1917 COMMERCIAL See original box in post #37.
n743tc ‘s #S 210529 has S serial # but no MADE IN U.S.A.
Model 1917 Commercial
In 1933 at about serial # 185,000 a hammer block was added to this model. It’s the 2nd pre war style (leaf spring in side plate - uses early style hand spring in trigger).
There's a statement in SCSW pg 163 that the new hammer block was added at serial #185,000 w/o an S because of course it’s prior to 1946.
“An S on the cylinder has nothing to do with the hammer block safety and was put on the first many thousands built in 1917-18.” Lee Jarrett
Upside down
# 15537 S (above) a Commercial Model is clearly one of the WW I produced frames in the 1 to ~175,000 WW I 1917 military serial number range. WW I 1917 revolver numbered frames were not all completed and only 163,476 completed revolvers (the estimated last military unit made being #169959), and 7300 numbered but incomplete frames were actually shipped to the Army or sold commercially until 1/5/1921.
These therefore do not have the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp (introduced in mid 1922) on the right side front of the frame. And the lack of the small left side logo is normal on military models and all S&Ws during and following WW I until resurrected ~1920.
The large S stamped following the serial #s in various locations indicates it’s below ~ serial #42,000 which were inspected under the auspices of Colonel Gilbert H. Stewart whose initials would be on the upper left side rear of the frame had it been assembled and sold under the military contract.
It also indicates the gun was shipped prior to WW II. After WW II a larger S prefix to the serial # on the butt was stamped to indicate N frames that had the new post war sliding bar hammer block safety.
*RE-USE OF 1917 SURPLUS FRAMES
Inspected, but unused serial numbered 1917 military frames preceding and following #169959, (the estimated last military unit made), were assembled thru #209791 by 1946. Some numbered frames went to the Navy and Marines.
Some 1917s with frames and parts left over from the government contract with very varied shipping dates were assembled into many commercial model 1917s, military 1917s to fill contracts for the Brazilian government in 1937 and 1946. Therefore the s/n is of little help to pin down the shipping dates, but features do help. Frames used 2nd Model 44 Hand Ejectors & 38/44s will have serial #s in the regular N frames serial number series.
There are numerous examples that have the flaming bomb or eagle government inspector stamps in one or more various locations but not on the outside of the frame which were finished off; only in the yoke, and on 45 barrels and/or 45 cylinders. Also fouling cutouts may be found on these frames under the top strap.
Example: 45 ACP all matching serial number is #55639 (assembly # 18408 match in all 3 locations as well), it's a round top/U sight notch, has Eagle head proofs inspectors stamps on barrel & cylinder; S24 on cylinder, and an S34 on the barrel. Likely from the 1946 contract because of round top strap and U notch.
If it has the S&W trademark on the frame it is a commercial gun, at least after ~ 1920.
War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos.
A few coml models were produced c. 1946 - 1950 (991 is the usual quantity quoted), most in the 1917 serial range # S209972 to # S210782 (811 #s), but not all, and some without the S prefix.
Issued as commercial models post WW II, found with and w/o lanyard swivels, and are considered "Model 1917 Army Post War Transitional Models", until updated with the short action as the: ".45 HE Model of 1950, Military" in 1951 beginning at #S85000 in the other existing N frame serial # range common to all pre war and post war models except the 1917 Army, but most with added S prefix in 1946.
*According to Neal and Jinks, the Commercial models of the early period were stamped 'US Army Model 1917' and stamped 'US Property' under the barrel, but this is questioned and mostly disproved. If they exist or are faked, this may be how the "Civilian Model 1917" mythology came about. More to learn on this issue.
Help me with what I thought was a S&W 1917
Linear Mode
