I just inherited this revolver from my dad. It belonged to my grandfather before him. My grandfather is who changed the grips to match the grips on an old colt .38 revolver. I am curious if someone can help me determine the age and some semblance of value. Should I have it appraised for insurance or is a simple record of the serial number adequate?

The serial number is 5075, there is no model number under the yolk and it appears to be in pretty good shape considering it was in a leather holster for the last 50+ years hanging in a closet.

Thanks

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WOW!
That is one special revolver!
My list has it shipped around 1910.

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Welcome to the forum.

Do you realize you've made a grand entrance to the forum with a holy grail of S&W guns?

You have a "44 Hand Ejector 1st model Target - New Century" also known as a Triple Lock! From ~ 1910 give or take a year. It's a scarce model and a priceless heirloom. Congrats!

The genuine India Sambar Stag grips are classic vintage upgrades as popular now as they were then. They just need a little hand fitting. They are also premium examples.

The gun would have a bit more value with the original walnut stocks, do you still have those?

It's also been re-finished which diminishes it's collectability and value but who cares, it's a family heirloom and I doubt you'll let go of it at any price.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Well, keep it out of the holster, as you probably know. I'm amazed that tanning acids didn't damage the finish or let it rust.

If you shoot it, I'd stick to relatively low pressure loads, not what Elmer Keith handloaded.

Your grandfather had good taste in guns!

Winchester and Remington factory ammo is the ideal for your New Century. The so-called "cowboy loads" would also be good, as they are generally loaded to pressures somewhat below those of the standard loads. We expect a range report !

Larry

I am going to ask my dad if he has any idea where the walnut grips are. I am doubtful that they will be found.

How can you tell it was refinished? My grandfather passed away 53 years ago and the gun has certainly not been refinished in that time.

Thanks

It will not be in a holster any more!

I do want to shoot it. When I have a chance to shoot it I will report back to the group.

Just for grins, I am posting a photo of the two revolvers. I am going to start checking into the Colt, but I imagine it is of close to the same vintage.

The Colt is stamped with 'Officers Model 38'

Dad told me the 38 was my grandfathers "carry gun".

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The two clues of a refinish that jumped out at me are the polish (the finish on the metal before bluing---which is less than that on an original) and the third lock (that on the yoke). The third lock should be "case colors"---possibly faded to gray. It appears to be blued.

Ralph Tremaine

Stain,

1. The blue is nice but it's not the S&W bright shiny blue that S&W pre war revolvers were famous for. However the preparation was skillfully done fortunately, but it has what's known as a satin blue.

2. The middle lock 'cam plate' that slips thru the frame in front of the cyl is blued. They are color case hardened by the factory.

3. The hammer and trigger factory protocol was also color case hardened. They have been polished bright.

A factory bright blue finish to compare to yours on an N frame single shot :-) :

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Jim
S&WCA #819

He liked target revolvers and quality Sambar Stag!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Super nice firearm congratulations on being the new caretaker of it .By all means do shoot it and give us a range report with more pictures there are lots of us who would love to find one just like yours especially with those beautiful stag grips what a grand dad you had.

Welcome! Just to emphasize a point already made, this is not only a fairly scarce Triple Lock, but one with Target sights. No more than a couple thousand of these were made and even fewer survivors exist today.

This one would be an excellent candidate for a letter of authenticity, which would confirm it shipped with Target sights and also tell you the original ship (sales) date and destination:

Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

Factory .44 Special ammo labeled as "Cowboy Action" would be a good choice for casual shooting. Enjoy!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! All I can say is WOW! But, I advise against shooting cowboy action ammo as they put compounds in the cartridges to make them simulate black powder. The guns and your hands/arms get very sooty shooting cowboy loads. There's no reason not to shoot off-the-shelf .44 Special cartridges in that gun.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Actually, and to pick a nit, a polished trigger and hammer are simply a sign the gun's been messed with----"personalized" in more gentile company---------as opposed to refinished.

And just what is it about advancing age that causes us to suggest the use of Elmer Keith type handloads should be avoided in this gun? (I can see where such loads might well be avoided with those grips, but-------------.)

Ralph Tremaine

Welcome to the forum! Others have said it's a scarce and desirable model. It is. You asked about insurance value. All I can say is thousands. With the refinish and not standard stocks, it will be significantly less than it would if original. And I'm sure an expert here can probably nail a value down for insurance purposes.

Again, welcome!

You are one Lucky Dog!
Oil that beauty well and Do Not store it in a holster!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Welcome to the Smith & Wesson Forum from Arizona. Great Start!

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

Shoot Cowboy loads made with smokeless powder, not 'black powder' loads made with substitute black powder.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Value?

Not sure, but here's one, also a Target Model, that I paid $1800 for about a year and a half ago. I prefer a gun with little or no finish over a refinish, but I would guess mine and yours would fetch a comparable price in today's market, something around $2,000, or a bit more.

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Welcome to the Forum.

Model numbers weren't assigned until 1957 and generally started showing up stamped on the frame behind the yoke in 1958.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Bought my 1909 shipped TLT a couple years ago for $1150. It has a good non-factory reblue, replaced rear sight, and came with 20's era stocks. I've added jiggled bone grips since.

Nice looking revolver!

I would love to get a letter from the foundation, but from what I have read I thought records are not available for a gun of that age. Can someone help me clarify that?

Thanks

Don't mix up the historian's letter with records from the Foundation. You can get an historian's letter that will tell you when the gun shipped, to whom and how it was configured. Other information that the Foundation may have or can find is a separate process that requires another fee. Not all the information they have has been digitized yet.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

I am going to shoot both of these revolvers just as soon as my work travel schedule slows down a bit. I will post a range report as soon as I do.

My dad said there was a state trooper who used to borrow the Colt from my grandad every year to shoot in the State law enforcement tournament and he won the tournament a time or two with the Colt revolver.

I really appreciate all of the information that Y'all have provided.

Thanks

I think you are going to love shooting 44 special in that gun. IMO the 44 spl has not gotten the recognition it should be getting. I just recently got into the 44spl and it is my main carry now.

I couldn't agree more, I've had .44 mags in the past but never a stand alone .44 spl until recently. In last couple of months I've purchased a 24-3 and 3rd model Wolf and Klar. Both are amazingly accurate with hand loads.

Well, I clearly have not been paying proper attention!!

In the beginning----------------------------

A "membership" in the historical foundation cost $100----as a tax deductible contribution.

A search on any given gun cost ZIP-ZERO-NADA----which can't be beat---I don't care who you are!!

Copies of whatever the search uncovered cost some insignificant sum---pretty much akin to (a cheap) lunch money.

Now-------------

I have no problem with the foundation folks charging more for their services (and have wondered why they didn't)------------------------------------BUT

I was about to ask when all this "another fee ($100)" business came to pass, but I don't care when. So what's the deal now-----really?!!

Ralph Tremaine

I do not want to denigrate in any way, BUT the grips appear to be genuine imitation stag horn.
NOT REAL STAG HORN.
Respectfully you submit the to the hot needle test.
Real stag will smell like burning hair, the imitation will melt.

Apart from the accelerated wear mentioned above, my reason for avoiding Keith's heavy loads is that the cylinders weren't heat treated and the Triple Lock is the main reason why factories don't load .44 Special ammo hotter.

If I wanted to use the gun for defense or to kill animals that might be a threat, I'd handload ammo with Keith's bullet but limit velocity to 900 FPS or a bit less. That is still an appreciably hotter load than the basic .45 ACP service ctg. that many consider a good stopper. Velocity may be similar, but that's a 250 grain SWC bullet. I think it's quite capable of killing a bear or a cougar.
I'd use that same load in later .44 Specials, unless I knew a bear or a big pig might be around. Then, I'd load to 1,000 FPS or just wear a .44 Magnum.

Of course, you do this on the INSIDE of one of the grips.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I have not had the grips off, but I will check on this and report back with photos. I have a feeling these grips were put on the gun prior to plastic being invented.

I just looked at the SWHF website, and as far as I can see you have to have the factory/historical letter but no mention of the extra $100 fee. My recollection is no charge for a search, a fee per page for anything found and a discount for HF members. Perhaps Doc44 will chime in here with the answer.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I wish to apologize for everyone I managed to confuse, dazzle or obfuscate. My memory is not what it used to be and I haven't visited the Historical Foundation website recently to refresh it. Attached is what used to be the pricing but I see the website has been changed. At any rate, I was off on the pricing which may have been my estimating what I might pay for a request I was pondering. Sorry again.

'

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Welcome to the FORUM!!! They are both "BEAUTIES" that anyone here would enjoy owning. Bob

Howdy

Your Grandad had real class and taste in revolvers. As you have already been told, the Triple Lock is one of the Holy Grail guns of S&W collectors, and the target model was very rare. According to the latest edition of the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, standard Triple Lock values are $12,000 for As New in the Box, $7500 for Exc+, $5000 for Exc, $2500 for Very Good, $1500 for Good, $950 for fair. Target models may bring up to 3X that amount. It does look to me that the latch piece for the third lock has been blued, a bit difficult to tell from your photos. If so, that means the gun has been refinished and that will bring the value down. But it is still a great gun.

This is what the third latch piece should look like. Either light gray, or with mottled colors from the original case hardening.







The bit about 'Cowboy Ammunition' having stuff added to it to make it smoke is incorrect. Cowboy ammunition is merely loaded down a bit to keep recoil down. Cowboy ammo loaded with a Black Powder substitute will be clearly labeled. The great majority of Cowboy Ammo is loaded with Smokeless powder and will be fine in your old Triple Lock.


Just so you know, 44 S&W Special CTG marked on the barrel is not a model name, it is the way S&W called out the caliber. CTG stands for cartridge.

The Colt Officer's Model Target is not too shabby either.

Thanks for the information. I had been told the third latch piece had been blued but I was unsure what that meant until your post. Very informative. Thank You.

The fact that the trigger and hammer had been polished, along with the fact that the blueing on the third latch. The fact that the blueing on the triple lock and the colt matched, pretty much assured the refinish job.

I am going to submit the application for a letter to confirm that it was shipped as a target model.

One poster told me that stocks were probably purchased with the gun as an upgrade. Another poster says they look fake. I intend to remove them and test them with a hot needle tomorrow. My dad says he can only remember that revolver with the stag handle and he's 87.

I spoke with my dad today and he said he remembered seeing a set of wood stocks somewhere but he thinks they would have been from the Colt because he remembers grandad changing the handles on that gun. I have implored him to please find them. He says they will probably 'turn up one day'. Maybe we will find them.

I am crazy excited to own this revolver. I am going to take fantastic care of it and shoot it soon. I truly appreciate all of the assistance from this board.

I have another Smith and Wesson. I guess its a K frame .38 special revolver from the grandparents on my mother' side. It's old but not really old, I think. It is in impeccable shape. I love that revolver and have shot it on a couple of occasions. I guess I need to bring it to the board to try and determine what it is.

I appreciate everyone's help with this.

While really good fake stags have the look of the ones on this TL, they look real to me. Real sambar stags only cost $40 in the 1980s, which means they cost even less when his grandad put them on this gun. I think they are true sambars that were handled very little and don't show darker tones from years of hand sweat and exposure.

The stags are real


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

Wyatt,

Once I remove them what should I look for? I have been told to heat a needle and touch the inside of the handle. If it smells like hair burning then it is real.

What else can I do to verify the authenticity of the handles?

Sure. Take them off and do that on the back. But first post pictures of the back here. I'm sure they're real but if they are an even white tone on the back with no variations in color, then they're fake. Plus it would be good to check the frame for lines left along the top edge of the grips. And to clean off any minute traces of dirt in that area.

I verified them above. For one thing the semi realistic faux stag grips came about 70 years after the gun and long after your grandfather acquired those on it. That's genuine dried blood and remains of the dried velvet in the bark, not die on plastic.

When you pull them off they won't look like plastic dishware. They'll look like sawed bone at the butcher. If you have to burn them to be convinced, they'll smell like getting your teeth drilled at the dentist.

Only ivory smells like burning hair. Pictures can be deceiving but once one has been making and fitting ivory and Sambar stag for 50 years one usually knows the look. Unless my eyes are finally failing even with my glasses on.

They may have been purchased when the gun was new as an upgrade but from the dealer, not the factory.

They're clearly not factory, they have never been fit to a grip frame (which makes them look a little like the plastic fake stag. And they don't have gold factory medallions like these original TL stocks:


Photo by CptCurl

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Jim
S&WCA #819

You are so right Colt especially and S&W were at the forefront of naming the proper cartridge on the gun.

Prior, the cal was usually all that was needed for cap & ball guns. But in the cartridge era, there became multiple cartridges of the same cal. The names then varied to identify which 44 or which 38, etc.

Sometimes one gun size used one cartridge so the guns weren't even marked. But to this day guns are marked with the cartridge not the cal., with exceptions as always like reproductions.

When people ask what cal is it? They mean what cartridge and the answer is usually the cartridge name, not the cal, like 44-40, 38 Spl, 380, 32 Long, 22 mag, etc. Less common with autos like 45 meaning ACP or 9MM where again, there is only one usual cartridge for the platform.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I pulled them off and they are real. I don't have to burn them. Now that they are off there is a small amount of rust in a couple spots on the handle. I will clean that when I get home tonight.

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Yep, those are the real deal. Those are great guns by any measure, but with the family connection, a treasure! Congrats!

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PTLAPTA!

Great revolvers. On valuation, I'll mention that about seven or eight years ago I picked up at auction two refinished TL targets in pretty nice shape for about 1K apiece. Their prices were probably held down by the fact that there were dozens of TLs for sale in that one event. I would expect either of them to go for close to twice that today. With the stags, $2500 or more is not out of the question for your specimen, so I would concur with setting a $3000 insurance value for it.

I like the Colt OM, too, but it may be a few years younger than the TL. If you will provide the serial number I'll look it up for you.

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David Wilson

Awesome guns!!!

Not a lot of mention here on the Colt. I have an Officer's Model that doesn't look quite that good, but man does it SHOOT! It is as accurate as any handgun I've owned.

Dan

The Colt Serial Number is 529400. I think that makes it a 1926 model.


I hear its an extremely accurate gun. I can't wait to shoot it as well.

Stain, right as rain on 1926.

BigMuddy, I'm a fan of these early Officers Model colts as well. I have one like Stain's from 1920 and another one built on the predecessor design from 1904. I don't shoot them as much as I probably ought to, but the last time I did they were more accurate than they had any right to be in these hands.

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David Wilson

I hope it's okay to bump this old thread, but its a pretty cool story.

Although the Stag handles are cool on the revolver I REALLY wanted the originals. Well, my father, brother and I were cleaning out my grandfather's house yesterday. I was clearing some closets that were in the kitchen pantry and came across a Smith and Wesson 32 Regulation Police Box and opened it up. To my astonishment, there were the original wood handles for the hand eject and the colt!!! I couldn't believe it. I have attached a photo.

The room had a roof leak and it was moldy and musty. The photo shows the shape the handles are in. Can someone give me some advice to help me with cleaning up the handles, if this should be done? I would be much obliged.

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