It's actually the 1949 ship date that makes the gun interesting. I would proceed with the letter, which should identify its original configuration (barrel length, specifically) and the company, agency or person to whom it was shipped.

We're down to just a couple of likely explanations for the gun's current configuration. Either it was shipped with the short barrel or it wasn't, and it was returned to the factory at some point at least for a refinish and perhaps for some component swaps as well. The specific occasion on which the sideplate logo and four-line frame stamp were applied remains unclear.

Just because of serial number proximity and the shipment timing I still think it possible that this revolver was shipped to the NYPD (or perhaps to J.L. Galef, the NY company that provisioned many officers).

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David Wilson

Really enjoyed this posting, as I posted my newly found 32 Hand Ejector a few weeks back. Mine was made in 1925. 4"bbl.
I now have decided that I will contact S&W Roy Jinks and get a letter for my own revolver. Your posting and answers makes me do this!
I haven't shot mine yet, but have bought a box of .32 SW ammo made by Aguila. It also deserves to be shot again!
And Thanks to all who have posted such historical info!!!

Here's some general history on the small frame .32s:

The .32 Hand Ejector and its cartridge, the 32 S&W Long are both historical. The .32 HE is the first side swing out cylinder produced by S&W, built on the first I size frame, and introduced as the 1896 Model (1st Model) along with its new cartridge. Production of this model extended to serial # 19,712.

It went thru several evolutionary changes until it became the 32 HE 3rd model in 1917 when a sq butt version was introduced as the 32 Regulation Police beginning at ~ #258000 in the same serial range as the 32 HE. The more common barrel length is the 4 1/4".

Target models with adjustable sights were available with 6" barrels as well as very rare 4 1/4" barrels, and with 2 screw extended target stocks.

The 3rd Model had a hammer safety block added around 1919 used thru WW II.

By 1920 the cyls received a heat treatment for additional strength as did all S&W revolvers.

Both were reintroduced after WW II in identical form except for the change to the much more fool proof post war sliding bar safety. They went thru more evolution in the 1950s, and in 1957 became the Model 30 w/round butt and the Model 31 w/square butt, and finally in 1961 were upgraded to the slightly longer J size frame with added -1 to the model #s.

Eventually both versions were combined as just the Model 31-1 in 1976, until discontinued in 1991. Various iterations were later introduced using the 32 H&R Mag and/or the 327 Fed Mag, both of which still use the 32 Long as well.

Any currently available 32 Long ammo in standard loadings is perfectly safe to shoot in your 32.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

As my dear old Dad used to say-


I shot a crow off the forum dumpster and have it marinating in Clorox.

I did not believe any guns shipped after WW II with the Pre-War pivoting hammer block.
Jim- have you observed other guns that shipped after the War with the pivoting block?
I don't believe any K or N frames did. I've never seen or heard of one, and they are what I've mainly fooled with. Obviously, they (K & N) are what I should stick to!

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee,

Frankly yes and no, not I frames but yes, 1946 Brazilians. In fact I pretty much figured I probably made a bad call when the existence of the 2nd style pre war hammer block was confirmed, but not positive even then.

I have pretty much given up being surprised anymore with anything I see from S&W, especially post WW II. My thinking was influenced by many comments you and Roy have reiterated many times. The factory had a huge challenge to meet pent-up market demand for all revolver models after the war and a penchant to use up as much old inventory as possible, get it out the door and to retailers’ shelves for sale.

After we’ve seen the 1946 contract Brazilians made up of a mixture of surplus parts, with no sliding bar hammer blocks and ‘Mexican’ model targets with pre war rib-less barrels/pre war Micro click sights (maybe David can confirm if they have the post war hammer block), it was pretty much anything goes for a large order. I was also encouraged with David’s contribution about a police order for the subject model in the late 1940's. To fill an order like that w/o having to retrofit the new sliding bar hammer block might turn more excess old inventory into a lucrative contract.

I felt that even if it was shipped post war, a refinish was almost assuredly in the gun’s past; the matching # stocks with heavy wear being a red flag as you confirmed. But there’s still several questions a letter may answer, i.e., was the 2” barrel installation part of a police order requirement or by a following owner during a refinish, and was it shipped to a PD.

And the archives might tell us if the guns were shipped back to S&W for repair/refinish (and possibly removal of PD markings) in quantity, most likely by a wholesaler that purchased the lot from the PD for resale to the public. I can’t imagine a private owner having it refinished without having the stocks replaced as well.

So here we wait for the letter.

P.S. Your crow recipe reminds me of my dear old dad’s recipe for carp. Clean, skin and nail to a nice knot free white pine board. Bake until cooked, scrape the carp off, and eat the board.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Dang, Jim. Made me laugh.

On a serious note, I confirm that my postwar Brazilian does NOT have the new hammer safety block. The Model of 1946 Mexican DOES have the 1945 hammer block.

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David Wilson

Thank you David!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Well, we had a great time in Tulsa, met a lot of forum members and attended the Southwest Bunch BBQ.

Was lucky enough to pick up a beautiful pair of MOP stocks for this little "32 H.E. Pre War/Post War Transition" gun.

I have just yesterday sent in my letter request, don't know why I waited so long, possibly short memory & old age! Anyway I will post the letter when I get it.

Here are a few pictures of the little 32 all dolled up with the MOP's. Hard to get a picture that shows the fire in these old stocks.


A

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GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

A few more pictures.

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GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

Awesome! Perfect on that 32.

The goldish coloring is gorgeous and unlike any I've seen.

Is there any marking on the backside of right stock?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

No markings that I could see, other than some rust like spots. I waxed them with a little Renaissance Wax. They fit really well with no movement even without the screw. Lucky me!

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GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

Those grips are great. Did I sell you those? I sold several pairs of pearls and don't remember.

Nice meeting you.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee,

No you didn't, I got to them before you saw them. Some guy brought them by my table and wanted to sell them. They were pretty grungy but were in otherwise in good shape. Took about an hour of cleaning & polishing after I got home.....time well spent.

I was looking at that Red kit gun box you had.

Great seeing you again.

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GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

Returned home from vacation and a letter from Roy was waiting for me. Most information is confirmed, but it was a surprise to learn of the connection to the Chicago Police Department. I purchased it from a gentleman in Alaska, therein lies an interesting story which is a mystery to me.

I am one happy camper!

Thanks again for all the help and great information,

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

Interesting invoice. I seem to remember we just had a letter not too long ago where a gun shipped directly to J. L. Galef in New York. It appears they also functioned as a distributor, facilitating sales where the guns didn't even go through their hands.

I wonder whether Chicago PD used these smaller-caliber guns for female officers. Like in this photo from a bit later, Feb. 1974

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What was J.L. Galef? I recently received a letter showing my post war M&P long action SV serial shipped to them along with 399 other 5" and 400 4".

__________________
Get off my lawn!

All I can tell you is that Jacques L. Galef was the president and founder of J. L. Galef & Son, Inc., a leading firearms wholesaler at 85 Chambers Street, and that he died in Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City in March 1971. He was 89 years old. If I were a paying subscriber to the NYTimes archive, I could read the whole obituary and tell you more, but alas, I’m not.

His company was located only a few doors down from where S&W’s earlier major distributor, M. W. Robinson, did business, on Chambers Street in NY, but whether Galef took over his role as distributor or whether the location is pure coincidence, I have no idea.

Galef was also heavily into imported shotguns; in fact, if you research his company, that’s what pops up most often. He registered a number of trademarks for shotguns in the 1950s, for fantasy names like Silver Hawk and Golden Snipe, as well as Sable for unspecified revolvers. I strongly assume those were US marketing names for no-name imports. They were renewed in the 70s, but expired in the 90s, so by then Galef’s company must have been out of business.

That’s as far as I’ve gotten.

I remember seeing and looking through a 1940s-50s Galef catalog some years ago. I think it was heavy on shotguns. I also remember they used to run ads in the older gun magazines like the American Rifleman.

I don't know how I missed this thread when it was active. It is a very interesting and informative thread. I see no harm in bringing it back.

My thanks go out to Hondo44 for directing a link to this thread in another 32 HE "Transitional" discussion here: 32 S&W 3rd model H.E.

But, having carefully read this entire thread, I have a question that you experts can hopefully answer. The following photo was posted in this thread with post #39 on the first page:





I fully recognize that the hammer is notched for the post-war sliding hammer block. I also see that the hand has the ramp for the sideplate mounted pre-war tilting hammer block (which is present on the sideplate). Finally, I see that the rebound slide does not have a pin to operate a post-war sliding hammer block. I also took note of the fact that the hammer does not display the patent date, while the trigger does.

Here's my question: The hammer is equipped with what I would consider the pre-war double action sear lever. That makes me think it is a pre-war hammer. But it has that darn notch, where none is needed. So my brain is bamboozled. Can somebody set me on a straight path of understanding?

Was that double action sear lever used post-war?

If this is the original hammer, why would it be notched? And why wouldn't it have the patent date?

So my conclusion, based on logic, is that this old-style double action sear must have been used for a period following WW2, which I had not heretofore known. Correct????

Thanks,
Curl

My first pre-caffeine thought about this situation is that the internals were originally completely pre-war, that the hammer (but not the sear) was damaged, and that the prewar sear was transferred to an available postwar hammer before being installed as part of a repair.

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David Wilson

David,

Thank you very much for your attention to my question. It boils down to the question, "Did they use the older style DA sear lever after WW2?"

Here is a composite photo I just made from images lodged on my computer. On the left is a pre-WW2 hammer (actually pre-WW1). It lives on a .32 HE Mod. 1903 Target, s/n 230245.

On the right is a post-WW2 hammer that lives in a .38 HE Target Masterpiece, s/n K76715.





The older hammer has what I consider to be the pre-WW2 DA sear lever. The newer hammer has what I consider to be the post-WW2 DA sear lever.

There's no way anybody could install the pre-war sear lever on that post-war hammer.

Again, my only logic is that S&W continued with what I consider the pre-war DA sear into the post-war years, at least in the I frame revolvers. But that fact, if true, is news to me.

Best,
Roscoe
Curl

Thanks. I understand your point and need to think about it, but I promise not to do so until a couple of espressos from now at the earliest.

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David Wilson

Curl,
On the K and N frames, I know that the old style sear was used Post-War on the Long Action Transition guns. The change to the new sear on K frames occurred during the Long Action Transition period. I can't speak for the small frame guns because I've never studied them to an extensive degree.
I'm not certain if the N frame guns changed to the new narrow sear during the Long Action period. I don't recall seeing one, and none of my current Transition N frames have the narrow sear. I think the narrow sear in N frames first appears with the short action guns in 49-50, but I could be wrong.

Below are two Post-War Long Action K frame hammers cut for the modern hammer block. As you can see, one uses the older, wider sear. The other hammer does not have the sear installed, but you can see that it obviously takes the later, narrower sear.

Just a quick guess on when this occurred is 47-48 for the K frame. JP@AK could probably narrow it down to a month or two.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thanks, CptCurl for reviving this thread. Man this forum is great as are all the knowledgable members willing to question & inform. I am learning more and more about this gun.

Thanks again for all of the comments,

Gary

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GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

Roscoe, in two words the answer is: You're correct! Good observation.

So we see there are 3 versions of hammers:

1. pre war hammers with wide sear (not shown)
2. pre war hammers with wide sear, that were reworked and notched for the post war safety, likely old inventory I suspect. Or perhaps they were made new after the war- for sure a transistional hammer if you will.
3. Final hammer originally made with the notch and narrow sear.



Photo courtesy of handejector

The below photo of the original gun of this thread shows the actual I frame type two hammer, i.e., 1st style notched hammer, and is slightly different from the K frame type two above. It's likely just an artifact of the slight difference in shape of the I and K hammer sizes. Because my I frame a standard post war .32 HE Post War Transitional I frame Model shipped in 1949, has the same type two hammer, with the sliding bar safety:


Photo courtesy of goatsnguns.

My early .32 Hand Ejector Improved I Frame from March 1952 has a Type three notched hammer.


The narrow sear was clearly a time saver to machine with straight lines as is the hammer for it!

We're witnessing the 'art' of firearm production being replaced with the cost savings of machining expediency that was so necessary for survival after the war by S&W.

The #2 hammer is used in Gary's I frame. I can't say why the hammer was changed in Gary's gun, I can't see all 10 new guns for the Chicago PD having damaged hammers. I can envision at some point the plan was to retrofit the new PW sliding bar hammer block safety at the time the factory installed 2" barrels and refinished new pre war completed guns for the order of 10 units. Perhaps they didn't have enough newer parts in inventory in 1949. So for expediency they were just finished up quickly w/o having to change the hands, rebound slides, remove the type 2 side plate safety or make/use new side plates, etc. And shipped them quicker.

I'd like to see the hammers on the other 9 CPD units to know if they all had #2 type notched hammers!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks for the comments on my question. It's always fun to learn something new about these fascinating revolvers.

Curl

I seriously doubt they "reworked" hammers to use the new hammer block. Cutting that sharp corner on a case hardened part would be difficult. Then harden it again?
They simply built a jig to make another cut producing that square corner.

I actually should not have called the hammer on the left "Post-War". It may or may not be Post-War because they started using the new hammer block DURING the war.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee,

We had similar thoughts. I hesitated on that as well. I just wish I knew more about Smith's production/inventory stages.

Maybe what I'm surmising is all wrong. But I keep remembering Roy's words about the factory not wasting anything. My speculation was that after the war old hammer inventory must have included hammers in all stages of completion; just forged, partly machined, fully machined with sears fitted but not yet CCH, and finally fully completed hammers. One day early in the war, production for gov't contract 38 M&Ps and/or British 38-200s was implemented. Regular production ceased, new tooling was installed. Regular model tooling and parts in progress were mothballed until sometime about 5 years later when unpacked from warehouses.

Completed hammers if any, kept for parts replacements and repairs, unfinished hammers possibly modified for new safety and to use up inventory of pre war wide sears. Finally a complete new hammer designed with notch and for the new narrow sears. Maybe the new easier to machine narrow sears weren't designed yet when the new safety was first implemented near the end of the war, came along later, and a 3rd style hammer was spawned.

I guess we can only speculate but will never know what actually happened.

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Jim
S&WCA #819