Some help needed with 1st Model US Army 1899

cmansguns · #1 09-07-2017, 10:01 PM

Hello forum;

Just browsing tonight and happened on some threads about Triple Lock, 1st Model, etc. Then took a fresh look at SCSW 4th about the military (Army Navy and Cutter Service)...jumped up..took the old girl out of the safe and checked her over good.

I know I know...no pics until hopefully tomorrow but maybe Monday before I can get to a decent camera.

Anyway...definitely 1st Model (no ejector lug, no flared collar on barrel) - 6", blued, 1/10" round front sight on a base, 4 frame screws, 1 strain relief screw in forestrap, large S & W logo on right frame side, case color hardened trigger and hammer, round butt with lanyard ring, and butt marked U S Army above swivel, and Model 1899 below swivel. Grips are checkered walnut with diamond right panel stamped in top round "KSM", left panel stamped "JTT 1901" both inside a circle.
Additionally the left panel at the very bottom (heel?) below the checkering has the numbers "02" in what appear to be factory stamping.

Left side frame has K.S.M. in very small font stamped right below the curve for the backstrap.

The barrel is stamped (also small font) "S. & W. 38 MIL" there are some kind of real miniature marks before the "S" and after the "L" but I cannot make them out even under magnification.

The serial number on the front strap is clearly 13030.

Some questions for the real experts on this forum about this 118 year old girl.

Is 38 S&W MIL the same as 38 Service Ctg, or 38 Long Colt?
Did this gun use smokeless powder or BP?
I know KSM was Kelly S. Morse, and JTT was John T Thompson, but the 1901 has me puzzled (could be a year?)
Why were two inspectors involved? KSM on right grip and frame, JTT only on left grip panel
Could the 02 on lower left grip panel also be a year? or possibly an Army Ordnance marking?

Finally SCSW 4th says that the Army Model 1899 were 1000 units manufactured with serial numbers 13001 to 14000. This indicates mine with s/n 13030 was quite early in the production. Does anyone know of a data base or lower serial number on record somewhere?

The action is very tight no play or end movement, charge holes super clean, bore bright. Bluing is showing its age but I'll have to post pics soon for a expert judgment on condition. For now I peg it at good to very good but that is modern gun equivalents and antiques I heard are a different grading system for finish.

As always....thanks in advance for any answers, opinions or revelations. You guys are indeed, the final word on things like this old girl. I have no clue whether it ever went to war (Cuba or the Great I), or sat in an soldiers holster, or arms room or whatever....for me it was a venture into the real old ones (along with a Colt 1903) and I have never shot it, and really do not plan to...I'd hate to blow it up with any kind of "modern" ammo.

If I can find the wife's camera somewhere I'll post some tonight.

cmansguns · #2 09-07-2017, 10:43 PM

Some pics to go along with my 1st Model US Army post a little while ago

Thanks again in advance for any answers to my questions.

cmansguns · #3 09-07-2017, 10:45 PM

Last 2 pics for tonight.

Thanks for looking.

DWalt · #4 09-07-2017, 11:46 PM

The "S&W 38 MIL" barrel caliber stamp was used only on Army contract 1899s. It's also in the Army SN range, probably shipped in early 1901. I am not sure whether the chambering was made specifically for the .38 LC in the Army models or not. The Frankford Arsenal military .38 LC loads ("Cal. .38 Ball, U. S. Army" was what the Army called this round) were switched to smokeless powder during fiscal year 1900. Prior to that, BP was standard into early 1900. The solid head case style was adopted at about the same time. You have quite a prize there.

H Richard · #5 09-08-2017, 11:10 AM

I would say it is definitely the Army model, I have an earlier civilian model in 38 Special, #8636 which was shipped in Jan 1901. A little soaking in Kroil and wiping down with paper shop towels might help those spots where a little rust appears evident.

Nice piece, I have shot mine (with mild WC target loads), and it is very accurate.

These are the guns that started the entire K Frame line.

brigham33 · #6 09-08-2017, 09:26 PM

Nice old revolvers! I had one and sold it in 2011 (#13798) because I was new to old US military revolvers and didn't realize it was a prize. It took me over a year of looking but I recently replaced it with 13245. You are fortunate to have it, hang on to it. They are scarce!

There are USN versions as well, in the 5000 serial range. They are also pretty scarce.

Thanks for the photos, someplace on here there are photos of my early S&W militaries.

robesetz · #7 06-01-2019, 01:08 PM

[QUOTE=brigham33;139739680]Nice old revolvers! I had one and sold it in 2011 (#13798)

I know this is old but you wouldn’t happen to know who you sold it to would you? I have Serial # 13799.
Thanks.

delcrossv · #8 06-01-2019, 01:45 PM

Here's my civilian model S/N 12xx, shipped 1900. Likes standard velocity round nose 38spl best. Your Army model is very cool. Thanks for posting!