I went to two gun shows today. Saw a very nice 6" nickel model 57 no dash at the first marked at $675, I was tempted, but moved on to the second show.

The second show had a few items of interest, but the one I nearly bought was the 2", round butt, pre-war M&P. The s/n was 6662XX. The same number was present on the butt, barrel (with a "B"), yoke, cylinder and extractor. I am not sure if the stocks were correct. They were wood without medallions like you see on the 1920's guns and I was not able to remove them.

The gun was marked $1200, so my initial reaction was that it was so high negotiation wouldn't be possible. After walking away twice, he had come down to $900. I was sticking firm at $800.

I went back one last time to tell him I was going to pass. He asked if I would give $850, but I declined.

The mechanicals were very good. The condition was generally good. There was some minor wear to the bluing and a few spots of freckling. I think a good cleaning could have made it look pretty good. The only other detractions were a couple of small impact marks. The patent marks were present on the hammer and trigger. There was a large S&W trademark on the sideplate and a small one below the cylinder release. I had never seen a gun with two logos.

My recollection is that these are fairly rare, but I wasn't sure if they are scarce enough to justify this much money for the condition. Did I make a mistake in walking?

Matt

Short answer-yes.

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CST 147

^^^^^what he said


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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

They are uncommon. It is well known there was a mid-1930s order for 1000 2" M & P barrels but no one knows how long it took to use up the supply; some might have been used for Victory Models or even postwar guns. Definitely no more than a few hundred commercial guns from the mid-late '30s to 1946.

With non-matching stocks but original (nice?) finish it would have been tempting at $850.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Very tempting.

Extremely hard variation to find. If memory serves me right there were only 250 2" barrels built before the war which makes them super rare.

SCSW 4th Edition says- Original 2" barrel worth premium, 2"round butt +50% to double. Hopefully you got his phone number. I couldn't have walked away for $50 more.

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Get off my lawn!

By now you know you made a major blunder. No point in crying over spilled milk. I probably wouldn't have bargained over the original asking price. These are far less common than the RM.

That serial number is very close to another two-inch prewar M&P numbered about 200 lower. That one is also a round butt gun.

It wasn't that long ago that some pre-war M&P snubbies were selling for $2000 or more.

The order to move the company logo from the left side to the sideplate was issued in December 1936. Very early in 1937 the order began to be executed, resulting in the mating of existing frames that had been marked under the 1936 rules with sideplates produced under the new policy. There are not a lot of double-logo guns from this era, but they show up from time to time. Most were shipped in 1937 and 1938, but a few specimens of the slow-selling models (mostly I-frames, I would guess) might have been stuck in the vault even longer. I have a couple of prewar Kit Guns with double logos.

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David Wilson

Will the show be open on Sunday?

If so run, don't walk.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

that woulda pulled 1200 out of my pocket in a heart beat.

Charlie

Sometimes being steadfast, rather than leaving you feeling virtuous, comes back to bite you in the patootie. Since you were already at 800 and the guy had come down significantly from 1200 (he apparently didn't really know what he had either), not giving him the last 50 made little sense in any case.

In situations like this it's usually better to ask questions or at least find answers while you can still do something about it. I don't go to very many shows any more, but when I do, and I see a gun I'm not sure about, I note the features and serial and sneak off to the side somewhere to use my phone to dig around on this and other forums in old threads using the search function to bring myself up to speed. That prevents me from finding out afterwards what I should have done (or not).

Long answer: It's not a matter of making a mistake---it's a matter of philosophy---call it a sense of value---or a lack thereof.

You clearly value $50 more than you value that gun. There's no right or wrong about that---it's a personal choice---yours. You might want to think about why you made it. Why is $50 more important than that gun?

If I shared the same unfortunate philosophy, I might wonder about when I might find another such item. Nobody knows the answer to that one, so it's pretty much a waste of time to talk about it.

On the other hand, I might wonder when I'm going to get some more money. The answer to that one is simple---tomorrow---maybe the next day---and that goes for any/everybody within the sound of my voice---and beyond---in our society at least.

So what is it about money that causes one to want to possess it? Most folks want to possess what they can have in exchange for it. Maybe that's why it's thought of as a medium of exchange.

Something to think about maybe----------------------------

Ralph Tremaine

Guys, let's not pile on the OP...if a return trip to the show is in the cards we may see photos tomorrow .

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I'm going back this morning. I suspected it was a mistake to not buy at the time and nearly turned around after leaving. The issue wasn't really the extra $50, for some reason I tend to try to squeeze out the best deal possible even if it means missing out. There are several I regret over the last year.

It will be evening before I will be able to report any success. Thanks for all the input. I am still relatively new at this, so there is still a lot to learn.

Good luck I hope you get the gun and come back with pictures .From now on I am following the advise of my new favorite philosopher Mr.Ralph Tremaine .Even if my wife does throw me out like she said .She obviously values money way too much I mean we are both retired our kids are grown our home is paid for so why hold on to money and actually we don't really have tne money just a bank statement saying we do I mean the whole thing is absurd really .Would I let something that I don't actually have possesion of stop me from trading said not held possesion ( money in bank supposedly) for something I can actually hold and admire and possibly use by shooting ect.Heck no it won't stop me anymore .Thanks Mr Tremain for shareing your wisdom if I end up homeless can I come live with you lol. Just kidding the camper is in my name she hasn't thought about that .

I am not sure I would operate on these same rules as a collector but to each his own. When collecting rare or uncommon firearms I am more interested in acquiring the gun for its value to me not it's sale value. I will always want to pay the least amount for any thing I buy. But in collectables it's a priority to take possession 1st and getting a smoking deal 2nd or even 3rd. If your strategy is ...to always buy at the lowest price possible and if you don't get you price you walk away...then I would say you are in acquisitions not collecting. That's OK. I do both depending on what the gun is. Some I just acquire because I like them or want them for shooting or occasionally it's too good a deal to pass up.
But others like the one you described... I would buy to collect. That requires a much different mindset when you are shopping.
JMO of course.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

The game. Its negotiating and trying to win by beating the other guy down. You feel good when it goes you way and when you win, you buy an object you may or may not want. So even if you win you might lose, and if you lose you might still be ahead. Sometimes we play the game for all the wrong reasons. My wife suggests I like money way too much. But she's way too cheap at times.

I've been on a quest to outfit my grand daughters with good jewelry for a few years now. I've been buying necklaces for a while now. Gold chain at the spot price of gold still leaves my buddy a nice profit in $ because he bought most of his back when gold was $300 an ounce. At yesterdays show a vendor had a nice little "charm" that looked like gold and diamonds. Its why I take along my jewelry appraiser to the gun shows. No, not my wife, she would just say she doesn't want it, and doesn't understand that its not for her.

Anyway, the seller was at $125 and said there was no room. My buddy Joe said he thought the stones were cubic zirconia because of the girdle around them. And the item wasn't marked 14k or anything else. So the vendor sort of chased us down the aisle to ask me how close we were. He was pricing for a big win on an item I didn't want. He got to keep it, I got to keep my money!

I sure hope the OP in this thread comes back to tell us he got the gun.

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Dick Burg

Meanwhile, the seller went home that evening, chagrined that he didn't come down that last 50 bucks, got on the internet to do a bit of research to salve his own trampled ego, and found this thread.

What would be your purpose of ownership? Display, shoot it or hide it in the back of a safe? Take some trade bait back with you today if comments here make it desirable in your mind. Things I collect are entrenched in my mind and I know when to buy without asking questions of others... just saying, I don't think you really want it... or we would be seeing pics now.

You kind of make this statement in jest, but it is 100% true. Everyone is different, and not everyone suffers from "the need to buy".

Even though this isn't the case here, I wish more people would hold steadfast to their beliefs/views instead of giving them all up in lieu of internet advice. I see it happen all too often.

I have been in the OP's shoes in the past.
Here's to a great thread and looking to see if he did indeed get the little gun.

We have all been there. I never let $50 deter me from buying a nice gun.
But Im a lot older and I have money.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I have an older brother like that-he buys military rifles and we are at a pawn shop. He beats the woman down to $65 on an old Italian Carcano. Whispers to me he will tell me about the gun when we get it outside! Spends a lot of time trying to get her down to $55 to squeeze the extra $10. Then when he tries to buy it for the $65 she is so mad at him she makes up a reason that they can not sell it to him. He was so mad at her!!
Ed

Here's my take.

$850 was a good price. I especially like round butt K frames. While I have several M&Ps, to me they are shooters. My guns get stuck into holsters and carried. So, it would have been a waste for me to buy that one.

If you really want it, I truly hope it was still there today.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

You guys are all wrong. The correct advice would have been to bundle the nickel 57 and the snub nose pre war M&P and get the seller to let go of both guns for $1400 to $1500. Now that is how it's done. Your welcome.

Except the 57 is at a different gun show. Now, that would be some real good haggling skills if he could make that happen.

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Matthew Conrad

I share the lady's character flaw(??). You haggle with me, and the price is going up. The good news is I don't sell hardly at all. When I do, I let someone else tend to it---better all around.

My favorite story on topic: The scene is the Old Town Station Dispatch---Mr. Supica's emporium's catalog of yesteryear. I have spied a goody---and I'm on the phone----immediately---as a first time customer. "Is that the best you can do on the price?", I ask. The nice lady's response---verbatim: "We believe this is a fair price. If we have not sold this item at this price within 90 days, we will revisit the matter of price." I bust out laughing. I told her I wasn't laughing at her---that I know what she said---but that's not what I heard. I told her what I heard went like this: "So you've got to ask yourself this question---am I feeling lucky? Well are you----PUNK?!!" At that point, she bust out laughing too---told me I heard it rather well. My reply: "Ship it!"

That was the first of several goodies from Old Town Station---with no fuss, no muss, and no bother.

Ralph Tremaine

Well I have arrived back with the gun in my possession. I appreciate the input on value and desirability. My experience with the early 50's guns skewed my view on pricing.

While not a frequent or prolific poster, I have been visiting the forum nearly every day for the last year or so learning and researching. The things learned here have made me much better at spotting unique configurations of S&Ws at gun shows. Given the myriad models and exceptions to rules of thumb, the opportunities to learn are unending.

I haven't cleaned the gun yet. Just gave it a quick wipe down with CLP before taking the pictures. It looks even better now than it did at the show.

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Glad it worked out for you.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

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Regards,
Bruce

very nice pre war S&W snub nose revolver...you did very well...what number is on the inside of the right grip??

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Good on ya'. That's a dandy.

Congrats.

Bob

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Good for you. It has the patent-marked hammer, used only during the pre-war period and dropped for WWII production. 6662xx would likely date it from 1938. Even with the 1920's grips (originals were probably black hard rubber), you got it at at a great price, and you could probably triple your money if you wished to sell it. Definitely worthy of ordering a letter.

Yes! Nice save.

If I'd seen that on a table for $1200, not only would I have not left and come back a few times, I would have tried to bargain (if at all) with one hand on the gun and one on my wallet, so I could yell "Sold!" in case someone else tried to reach around me to look at the gun .

Here is a shot of the s/n on the grip. In sunlight with a flashlight I can't make out much. Looks like the first might be a 7 and the last a 2.

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Congratulations, mmck! Note that I would also have been conflicted if I had been in your shoes. I would have strongly suspected this was an opportunity not to pass up and would have held out for a lower price for sure than the asking one. But I probably would have risked $50 more than I thought I was willing to offer the first time around. And i'd have held my breath to learn what you have learned here! Being a snubby and an old one would have tipped me over to spend the extra fifty!

I'm so happy you were able to find it still on the table today and bring it home. You have a dandy there for sure! Good for you!!

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So long ... Ken

Unfortunately, the 1920s wooden grips were serial numbered in pencil, and are usually very difficult (if not impossible) to make out. Later grips were stamped and are much more easily deciphered. I wouldn't think any 1920s-period K-frame SN would begin with a 7 (either .32-20 or .38 Special) but I agree the first digit looks like a 7.

Nice snubby, I am very jealous. I have a line on one from a friend, it was his dad's old undercover carry piece when he was a cop. He is looking to let it go to someone who will appreciate it like he does.

Good for you! Did you get it for the $850 or did he teach you a lesson by moving back to $1,000?

Glad you got what you wanted and that you get years of pleasure and pride of ownership that are priceless.

Glad to hear it was still there and you got it!

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Get off my lawn!

Still got it for the $850. He seemed like a good guy. Retired military and LEO.

Time to buy a Lotto ticket.

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CST 147

Glad it worked out, it was meant to be . Definitely more than an $850 gun! The letter may show it shipped with walnut or hard rubber stocks, I think (you are getting a letter, right? Don't make me ask you twice! ).

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Yes, I'm definitely getting a letter. I received letters for two other guns in the last month that turned out very interesting, but suspect this one may be the topper.

You walked away from this for $850? You're lucky somebody like me didn't get to the show earlier and snagged it! The condition is very very good, worth every penny of his original asking price. Nice snag

SVT28

Interesting thread, and I'm glad the OP got to come with it. If I had walked away and come back in 10 minutes, it would have been gone.

Nice score. The condition is very good on that one. You did very good as I have seen these sell for big money. There was one a few years ago with military history that sold at auction for over $5000. They are extremely hard to find in that condition.

That is just one sweet revolver. Glad you finally nailed it down.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Wow, nice catch. I'll bet you were first in line when the door opened.

You just saved over a dozen lives, man. If you had come back and said it was gone, most of the posters in this thread would have had heart attacks. "I'm coming, Elizabeth!"

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629