Approx when did the first shipments of 1st Mod HEs in .455 arrive in Britain in 1914? Watched an awesome film about the British at Mons ("Our World War") last evening and being Aug 22-23, 1914 I'm thinking that was likely too early for HEs in British hands.

maybe this helps

A Smith & Wesson ".455 Mark II Hand Ejector, 1st Model (Triple Lock), - Lot detail - Hermann Historica GmbH

regards
Ulrich

__________________
Life is too short to own a bad gun

This is from The History of Smith & Wesson by Roy Jinks:
"When England entered World War I on August 4, 1914, they sent an urgent message to Smith & Wesson requesting revolvers as promptly as possible. The factory completed the first revolvers on September 24, 1914, and by the end of September, 250 .455 Hand Ejectors were completed."

Of course, this doesn't say when they were shipped, and certainly not when they arrived in England. Per Ulrich's post, we can see that there must have been a shipment from S&W on October 21, 1914 that included serial number 6919. Obviously, this shipment arrived in England at some later date.

If there were any .455 S&Ws in British hands in August 1914, they would have had to have been privately purchased.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

Thank you Jack

Interesting that the TL has centered crossed pennants on the front left of the frame, released from service arrow points on the right side, no caliber marks, no proof marks, and must be the Brit acceptance for service on the frame hump left side (hard to see).

So, released from service prior to 1925, and crossed pennants were on the pistol after it left the plant and went to England, along with the acceptance for service marks.

Here is the factory letter and research information from the link Ulrich provided:

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

Would love to find a good 1st Model .455 w/factory letter, etc someday

From the Roy Jinks quote above, S&W took from August 4th to the end of September to make 250 TLs. Does that sound slow to anyone besides me?

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

Yeah, that's about five a day. Even allowing for time to set up a production line and get the kinks worked out, that doesn't sound like a burdensome production standard. Guns numbered above 3600 were shipping by the end of the year, so that ups the unadjusted production rate to over 35 a day for October through December -- about 45 a day if you assume a 40-hour work week with no overtime production.

Just to add a data point, .455 TL no. 358 shipped in October 1914, but I don't have the specific date.

__________________
David Wilson

This is the exact type of info I was looking for, thank you gentlemen.

The most important part of the letter, the 2nd page is not shown for some reason. Although some of the specifics are in the auction description which tells us #6919, is one of the 666 44 HE 1st Models converted to 455.

AND we know, which is confirmed since #358 with a British series s/n, a 455 HE 1st model, shipped simultaneously to the 666 44 1st model converted TLs.

I think it's relevant that we remember S&W was still in full commercial production of all ts standard models in this time frame.

I suspect they devoted a relatively small commitment of employees to the task of converting existing 44 spl 1st Model revolvers or partially completed frames in inventory to 455 chambered 44 TLs, as well as the new production line set up for 455 TL 1st Models in the new British s/n series.

First of course hundreds of 455 barrels and cylinders had to be produced from scratch or existing 44 barrels re-bored and cyls re-chambered. All the while maintaining existing regular production since we know many, many commercial models were shipped during this same period.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

I thought the fact that they pulled .44 frames from production for the British Contract indicated a real sense of urgency. Perhaps it was much more limited that I had imagined.

Many at the time thought it would be a short war. Could be S&W didn't want to drop everything to make revolvers in large quantity for the British and then find out the contract was cancelled and the company was stuck with guns they couldn't easily sell in the US.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.