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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #51  
Old 10-02-2017, 05:25 PM
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Indeed Jack, indeed, but I wasn't thinking of yesteryear and $12/hr gunsmithing. I was thinking of todays gunsmiths and their prices and parts prices and on and on. Ahh, the days of King and Micro and all the others who made all the bits and pieces we used to assemble our dreams, but they don't exist anymore. It has become a fairly expensive proposition to build a custom anything these days.

Stu
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:54 PM
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Les,

Them snub'd N frames are..............A-Okay in my book.



.
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:15 PM
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Dave:

Wow!! That sure is another beauty! Thanks for sharing with us. One of the earlier posters said that you were famous for building the guns that Smith and Wesson should have built...I gotta agree.

Best Regards, Les
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stu1ritter View Post
For a "one of" custom creation I can't ever think of why you would start with a hammered old gun and then put all the money, thought, time, effort, hopes, dreams, into it. I would start with the best example I could to get the best finished product I could.

Stu
Stu,

I feel like I need to start with a good solid gun as my donor, but if it's a little "cosmetically challenged" it doesn't hurt my feelings too badly. Of course using a LNIB example or a collectible in anything like good shape is a no no for me.

Froggie
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:21 PM
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I agree with Froggie. Starring out with a cosmetically challenged guns is the way to go. First they are usually much less expensive than those with perfect finishes, next the mods will usually need refinished, parts changes often cause mismatched finishes. Myself, I have a small blue setup and I don't think fixing minor scratches and pits is that hard, maybe a bit time consuming. Once the the gun is smooth and even the actual blue job isn't that hard. Most important on finishing steel is to use a correctly shaped backer on your sand paper to avoid rounding things off. Start at the finest grit possible and get rid of all imperfections and then go up to real fine grits to remove scratches left by previous grits.. Buffing should not round stuff off, because it shouldn't take much buffing. Buffing doesn't remove metal as much as smear it a bit. If you try to remove imperfections or scratches with a buffer all you'll really get is shiny scratches and imperfections.

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Old 10-02-2017, 08:49 PM
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great idea, Les. Now I want one.
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:56 PM
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I'm all about taking guns and turning them into what you want, never mind what anyone else thinks.

I had a chopped '37 Brazilian a while back, sold it to a forum member IIRC. Great gun great look.
[IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tzBvsi-fXjmIT0HZ1vxR001Q9-_95bctDjZvm5LG-Qt13lwuLaQUjP4fA8T0DPz6iFP7FKPIq6mcP0Esb9AzGHjhP4AtFzcWSDVDe6GxItr4JQPZ2bh9BrBxzsgz6UNBg55kC3wC-2D3NsNa0i5BfR-wuBoReyxIm2ZgoVCSpmwYWORVwXhhGheNtVA15VTnQM0Q7A_JZpOGTTxz6A5FXcjruLvOIk_YWRuWgMj4M7reZvNs66DMbF**GCSYgNbrzqMg_zJddyB_jU9WJ01NCp2cCopv4LgFeBxgEjOMXeUQJieZiWNvrHbo8DLvcQ2Kt568enjjMlV9xFjo9tr-8HAu3j10EPM0iL_l-FK4nvZmaP6J0M-7K5KwEE0cakKvetglBqMEZVknkr6puj6rK7C5wUZ-6_gtSwFrR0hEPOZIx2vyGP8ZEsdyzTx6aj_qpHjkLQH_Xlycrb3JBZCzCADmIDzVqQpde1Ta1s8X1E1B1upiriaz8b6Mm5T1ghLIjPMNAb7DkZlMtAaQpKxwTJ9J3BN2JOErWqS0wZfzohsNqP6YmCn5_-aAzNLhwAC9u8anL52foHr2guQe0KZELUEsCtKqGq-GgqlSwkx5n_45xzeVOQc5egoalCzuEFkR9os=w541-h308-no[/IMG]


This is my .41mag M28-2 that Mark Hartshorne recently completed for me. Started with a beater 28-2, a titanium M357 cylinder, and a 4" M58 barrel, Mark worked his magic and boom, there it is.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:36 PM
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If the piece doesn't have any historical or significant collectible status I say "Whatever floats your boat and more power to you."
I don't have any need for a firearm that I do not enjoy to shoot and only a but a few that I consider nice enough to keep that down to about a couple times a year.
It would have be a very cherry any kind of Model of 1917, Brazilian or otherwise that would keep me from working into what I wanted, I'm sorry...
I picked up a decent Brazilian from a friend for a very reasonable price, it had already been reblued which faded out most of the roll marks, damage done...fair game.
I've got good eyesight but for some reason or another fixed sights devil me to no end. I continually shoot high and to the left, and I've done all the right eye dominant stuff and shoot adjustable sights just fine once I crank everything over to the right.
I stuck a Wondersight on it and that solved most of the problem, I wanted it a little shorter and had a good friend of mine shorten it to 4" and install a Baughman style front sight with it regulated to the height of the Wondersight. What a difference it makes, I've got a pretty decent load built up that shoots 185gr Rainier plated hollow points with 6.2gr of Red Dot to point of aim at 10-15 yds, I like shooting the 185gr Rainiers at targets and loading 185gr Hornady XTPs for carry. I used to carry that little number quite a bit until I lucked into a nice 25-3 3", I like a 44 just that much more.

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Old 10-05-2017, 07:57 AM
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Kinman, when I first heard about the FDL Wondersight (about 35+ years ago) I was pretty excited about the potential it gave. Although I still have not spent any real range time with one, the more I study on it (OK, I'm slow like that) the more it strikes me as delicate or even fragile for field use. Would you care to comment on this and perhaps disabuse me of my misconception? I really would like to have the FDL WS in my package of useful accessories for pre-War M&Ps like Victories and even my 32-20 M&P.

Regards,
Froggie
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  #60  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:41 PM
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The Wondersight was in production a coupla years ago. I'm not sure if it is still available. Check on-line............
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:15 PM
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Yeah, they're still available new. I think I got mine off eBay.
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:20 PM
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Great thread. I picked up the 44 special 1927 shown. Factory letter says it shipped as a nickel 6.5" gun. Someone, lost to the past, had the barrel cut down to 3.5", the original front sight re-welded, and the the gun re-nickled. Grips also by Bigmtnman. It is laying head to head with my standard 1950 Military 44 special to show the difference between it and a standard 4". I also have a New Service 1917 the someone in the past installed a really thick 3" barrel: like a rifle barrel stove pipe, and soldered on a brass stock front sight to make a neat belly gun: unfortunately the internals are a mess, the gun will not index properly or lock up decently.
Mike
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:18 PM
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I bought a bubbaed Brazilian off this very forum years back, the original owner dipped it into chrome at work and then he could not get the spent cases to eject after firing? Sent it down to Ford's in Florida then to Clements in Virginia. Thought I'd have Dave/Charles shorten the barrel due to frosting at muzzle inside the barrel but, they talked me out of it. Now a great shooter. I own a Wonder Sight for it but, not in the picture. By the way, I find the Wonder sight very field useful. I see the cylinder hold open pin or spring in OPs pictures, I know N frames work fine without them but, Fords never returned mine when gun arrived at Clements either.

Steve

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Old 10-05-2017, 04:35 PM
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Some of these photos are making me lust badly. Nice looking old N frames!!!
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Old 10-05-2017, 08:59 PM
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This thread is going to cost me money
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Old 10-06-2017, 08:17 AM
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OK it's official. Now I've got to live to at least 115 to finish all of my projects in the queue!

I have a Wondersight coming to use with my M&P 32-20.

The search is on for another 1917/1937 that is suitably "challenged" to be the donor for my next big bore gun.

I haven't really gotten any of my most recent projects completed, so they stretch out into the future as well. All I need is unlimited funding and 36 hours in each day. Glad I'm retired and can devote my energies to all of these pressing projects!

Froggie
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:02 PM
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Update:

Nothing happening....it's mid-term at school, and I've been busier than a "one-armed paper hanger", (as my dad used to say), and I haven't done anything on my project gun for a week.

There's a local gun show this weekend, and I'm going to go just to see what's up since the shooting in Las Vegas, plus you just never know what might turn up at these events, although I don't think that gun shows in general are what they used to be.

Anyway, I haven't given up on my project, it's just on hold for a short time.

Best Regards, Les
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:08 PM
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Damn, I'm runnin' out of popcorn...
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Old 10-06-2017, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
Kinman, when I first heard about the FDL Wondersight (about 35+ years ago) I was pretty excited about the potential it gave. Although I still have not spent any real range time with one, the more I study on it (OK, I'm slow like that) the more it strikes me as delicate or even fragile for field use. Would you care to comment on this and perhaps disabuse me of my misconception? I really would like to have the FDL WS in my package of useful accessories for pre-War M&Ps like Victories and even my 32-20 M&P.

Regards,
Froggie
I can't give you any true experience with "field conditions" and in view of the fact that very few "issue" handguns come equipped with adjustable sights it would warrant that they are not desireable for a "combat" situation. They are fastened onto the weapon by the fifth screw, which is taken out and after the sight assembly is installed a larger screw with a through pin is fit though the base and sight adjustment assembly. It is recommended by some that a piece of electrical tape is placed between the base of the WS and the frame, I did that. After the sight assembly is installed you have height adjustment adjusted by loosening the "fifth" screw replacement and windage adjusted by a larger screw head that is the one piece of the entire contraption that could lead to a problem snagging on clothing, etc. I did find that even with the large adjustment screw head installed the revolver fit into a slightly modified Victory shoulder holster I have set up for this piece, it also fits another older Lawrence 4" holster.
Which brings me eventually to what I have to say about its overall value. I like them and actually plan on installing another one on a Triplelock that I recently acquired mainly because I cannot regulate the sights to my eyes without the use of some sort of adjustable sight. If all I had to work with was the factory non adjustable sights I would eventually get used to holding low and to the right on everything I shot at just like my GI issue 1911 back in the day. Given an opportunity to remedy the situation and shoot to point of aim like I can with every adjustable sighted firearm I own I believe I am going to make myself happy in the process.
They are still available and the same guy also sells screw assortements in just about every size and shape for guns available, he claims to have bought the rights from the second owner...try Evan's Precision Tooling.
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:56 AM
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Hey Les,
I like the idea of cut'n that old 1917. I have lusted after a chopped down version ever since I saw Iggy's. Now you come along.... I can hardly wait to see the finished... dressed up ole girl.

Another one I have wanted was a cut down 38/44 and Dave just showed how nice they can be in a previous post.
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Les,

Them snub'd N frame are..............A-Okay in my book.



.
That is as fine a rig, from top to bottom, as a man could ever want. A real beauty. Nice job.... really nice job.
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:45 PM
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DevilDog72, just what pistol smith would you get to do this work? My go to guy used to be Clements
but, he told me he no longer does these things nor Bowen or anyone else I've talked to in some time?
Not many around who will and have you priced either a Brazilian or 1917
used barrel lately or seen any for sale? I do like the looks of an Indy short barreled 1917/37
but, couldn't bring myself to have the cutting done.
Steve
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:36 PM
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S.B.
I do not know of one for sure, however, maybe Pinnacle High Performance. No, I have not priced one lately.... that said, I could not afford such a gun. I can only think, dream and wish for one. Maybe, if I win the lottery......
For now all I can do is look at fellow forum members guns.
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Old 10-07-2017, 03:18 PM
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Interesting project, Les, and I wish you the best of luck with it. Post new pix after you finish it so we can all see how it turned out. I admire your idea of using a separate barrel that is not "collectable" for alteration and keeping the original matching # barrel with the gun.

Re yr post dated 9-29, back in 2005 I purchased new Model 21-4 (44 Spl) from CDNN Sports in Abilene TX. This gun has a 4" bbl and is just like the Thunder Ranch model except without that logo. As to the "safety lock" on the left side, all one has to do is leave it in the "unlocked" position--or if the appearance is so bothersome, I presume it can be welded up! (That would require the gun to be refinished, of course.)

In the mid-'90s I purchased a 1950 Target Model 44 Special made ca 1955 that had been treated hard. It had a very worn bright blue finish, was a little loose & needed a new firing pin bushing & upper sideplate screw. I had the S&W warranty gunsmith in my area cut the barrel to 5" & replace the bushing. I got the needed screw, installed a new front latch pin & new S&W smooth combat trigger. The original front sight had been carved into a half-moon shaped like a fixed-sight revolver has, so the gunsmith made a ramp front and a Patridge-type blade with gold-color lines spaced 1/8" apart for long-range shooting (per Elmer Keith). He also made an extra blade that I can carve up to a different style should I wish to do so. I had the gun Parkerized for field carry though I don't get outdoors that much any more. But I will offer the opinion that a high-polish blue finish is not desirable on a gun that is to be carried frequently in a holster because the finish will rapidly wear off.
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Old 10-07-2017, 07:10 PM
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There's a local gun show this weekend, and I'm going to go just to see what's up since the shooting in Las Vegas, plus you just never know what might turn up at these events, although I don't think that gun shows in general are what they used to be.
Well, some of you may have seen what I found at that gun show... Here's a link to my separate thread on the subject: Gun Show Finds. October 7th, 2017 In general, there was light turnout, and some empty tables, but I found a couple of gems, and came home with one of those.

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Old 10-14-2017, 11:06 PM
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Just think, every old N-frame that gets modified, makes your collection more valuable. Also lots of cut up guns are available for sale.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:26 PM
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Les,
I hope you see this and can give us a progress report.
Below is the 1917-10 (1917 with 625-10 barrel) that's been at refinishers.
I'm also including pic of a chopped commercial (no, I didn't do it) that needed a lil mechanical TLC.
Sorry for poor pics. A photog, I'm not.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:33 PM
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:10 PM
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Thanks all for the pics and great discussion. I have collected S&Ws for my adult life and enjoy shorty HE/17s 45s as much as anything. They donor even require great finishes as I plan to shoot them a lot with lead reloads. I can also add that you can find them if you keep looking. Tommy.
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Old 05-23-2018, 10:16 PM
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Smile Update, May 23rd, 2018!!

Well, I'll bet you guys had forgotten all about this thread!!

Thanks to a heads up from Iggy earlier this evening, I am one step closer to completing my big bore snubby project. He was astute and quick enough to let me know about a perfect barrel for the project, and I have been in contact with the seller, and it will be on the way tomorrow!!

Here's the seller's photo:



I think it will go really well with my original concept, which, if you remember was based on Iggy's own snubby crafted by our own maestro, Dave Keith. While I certainly can't aspire to produce the sort of masterpieces that Dave does, I hope to have a functional snubby when I'm finished.

I'll be sure to keep everyone in the loop!!

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Old 05-23-2018, 10:40 PM
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I'm looking forward to seeing more. Thanks for the update, Les! I still want to do this some day.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:28 PM
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Got a bowl of popcorn and I'm cocked and ready.. Let'r rip!
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:39 PM
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You're going to make me regret selling it, aren't you.
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Old 05-25-2018, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
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Got a bowl of popcorn and I'm cocked and ready.. Let'r rip!
Iggy,
Your revolver (opening post) appears to be a British .455 H.E. 2nd Mod. w/o the ".455" roll mark.
If this is true, I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.
1. Is it recessed for 45 LC?
2. Who did the barrel work?
3. Is that a parkerized finish?
4. (Optional of course) what did the barrel and/or finish work cost you?
I have the same revolver I've been contemplating that exact treatment, but reinstalling the front sight is over my head.
Thanks sir,
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:35 PM
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Jeb,

On the 455s yes, you want to recess the 45 Colt rims, but not fully. Just enough (about .015") to maintain the original head space of the 455 case.
That way you'll have reliable ignition and proper head space.

AND you'll still be able to shoot 455 ammo because its larger diameter rim will not fit into the 45 Colt recesses.
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
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Jeb,

On the 455s yes, you want to recess the 45 Colt rims, but not fully. Just enough (about .015") to maintain the original head space of the 455 case.
That way you'll have reliable ignition and proper head space.
Hondo,

Yes, mine is recessed perfectly, wondered if Iggy's was.

I need to get the barrel shortened, front sight replaced (and sighted) and finish redone. Mine is in a state of poor re-hot blue now. A prime candidate. Wondering who did Iggy's work & what finish that is.

Here's my candidate for Iggy-izing:

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Old 05-26-2018, 07:45 AM
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You guys all have some very cool and very nice firearms and lesB looks like you are getting close to one also .Great concept good luck and keep us in the know .
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:34 AM
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Jeb,
Mine is a real Heinz 57. It is a 455 II. but the cylinder and barrel are now post WWII. Both are .452 caliber. The barrel shown in that picture was the original, but was bulged when I got it. I think I still have the .455 cylinder.

The present barrel is a Brazilian surplus replacement meant for their Model 37s. I got it unfired off of GB for $75.00.

The cylinder is cut for moon clips and bored for 45 Colt. The gun will fire .45 Colts, but ignition is "iffy".

I use 45 Winchester Mag brass loaded to Colt 45 pressures in moon clips. That puts the bullet right up to the forcing cone thus eliminating the bullet jump of 45 ACP and ARs. I can shoot ACPs and ARs in the gun too but accuracy suffers a bit.

Dave Keith (keith44special) who has posted in this thread did the barrel work on mine, but I'm not sure he is accepting work these days. He cut it down from a 5" and moved the sights.

As to cost, we did some tradin' here and there.. I think I came out ahead of the game.

The gun is parkerized, but that was done locally.
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Old 05-26-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
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Jeb,
Mine is a real Heinz 57.
Thanks for the info sir. I usually prefer A-1 but your Heinz 57 suits my taste just dandy this time. Whoever milled that cylinder for moon clips had their thinking cap on at the time.

I think all I need to do is shorten the barrel (myself), have someone move or install a new milled sight base for a pinned blade and get it Parkerized. Maybe I can get that done locally as well. I'll try to buy'em off with a few boxes of Premium Cigars. I have a REAL big (3000 box) humidor. Heck, maybe I'll spring for the clip milled cylinder too.
Thanks again,
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:04 PM
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Well...USPS tracking said that my new barrel would arrive Tuesday, May 29th, but I was mowing grass today, and peeked in the mailbox, and there was a little package from dacoontz!! Later checked my iPhone, and saw the updated tracking, which said that it was delivered at 1:56 PM!!

Anyway, I'm not ready to put it together yet, my tools are at my workshop at home, and I'm still at the cabin. I've been soaking the old barrel and frame in Kroill (not sure if that's the best, but it's what I had here).

Dried off the Brazillian, and posed it with the new barrel, to give you guys a preview of what it's going to look like!!



I couldn't be happier!!

Put the frame and barrel to soak again, hoping to ease the removal after 80 years of who knows what. Remember my first posts of what the Brazilian looked like inside when I first pulled the sideplate.

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Old 05-26-2018, 06:24 PM
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By Jove Old Chap, I think that's gonna work..


Right now it's looking a little like my 1917. This one was loaned to the British for WWII, De-acensioned about 1955 and found it's way back to the states.. I gussied it up a little with Grashorn grips.


You got a rig to carry that little belly gun in when you finish?
They can be quite handy you know...
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:50 PM
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Should be a great little gun. I have a couple Brazilians I need to take out to the shop.
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Old 05-26-2018, 08:11 PM
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Les,
That is going to be extremely cool when you get it finished! Put it in a nice shoulder holster.
Larry
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:18 PM
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Should've guessed that I wouldn't be able to wait longer....

I've been soaking that barrel in Kroil for three days, was going to wait a little longer, but thought I'd see how tight the barrel retaining pin was. Tapped it with a plastic mallet, then with a cup pointed pin punch which matched its diameter, and it slid right out. I couldn't believe it. When it came out the other side, it was soaked its length with the Kroil. No rust or gunk.

So...I had been periodically tapping all around the frame and where the barrel screws in to the frame (with a plastic headed mallet, so as not to mark the finish or metal) as I applied Kroil, in an effort to aid in the seepage of the oil, and the loosening of any crud in the threads. I think it must have helped, because after sitting 80 years, the barrel loosened, and unscrewed just with hand pressure. When I had unscrewed it completely, I observed that the threads of the barrel and inside the frame were completely saturated with the Kroil. This is the first time that I have ever used it in such a fashion, but have read good things about it.

Unbelievable.

Here is the frame with the barrel removed.... (I had not even stripped out the internal parts, other than to remove the cylinder and yoke.



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Old 05-26-2018, 09:30 PM
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Iggy.....



That's a great idea, I have been thinking that whatever holster I get would also do to carry my 27-2 with the 3 1/2" barrel. Even though this one is more like 3 1/4"... I'm sure that I can find something that will do duty for either. Right now, I've been using a 4" N frame holster when I'm out shooting the 27-2, and although it works, it's not all that cool looking!!

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Best Regards, Les
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:36 PM
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Here's some more ideas. All work with Mdl 27s and the belly gun.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:38 PM
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Here we go....

New barrel lined up and ready for a trial fit!!.....:



By the way, I've scrubbed out the threads on both the frame and barrel with a bronze brush, there was some crud in the frame threads. Both are ready to try together, but there is some crud and cratering on the face of the frame which might interfere with seating the new barrel. Plus, it is by no means certain that the new barrel with be a fit without some adjustment of the barrel shoulder or the locking pin, or both. Also, will have to see how the barrel cylinder gap works out.

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Old 05-26-2018, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les.b View Post
Should've guessed that I wouldn't be able to wait longer....



Best Regards, Les
Les,

I have to believe you screwed in the replacement snubbie barrel to see how it 'clocks' by now!
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:45 PM
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Whut Hondo sed. The suspense is killing us!!!
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:48 PM
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My Latest N Frame Project.. The beginning---Update: May 23rd, 2018!! My Latest N Frame Project.. The beginning---Update: May 23rd, 2018!! My Latest N Frame Project.. The beginning---Update: May 23rd, 2018!! My Latest N Frame Project.. The beginning---Update: May 23rd, 2018!! My Latest N Frame Project.. The beginning---Update: May 23rd, 2018!!  
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Jim:

Yep..

But just.....I was just about ready to do so, my GF called, and asked me to run an errand for her!!! Yikes! What timing...but now I have screwed in the barrel, and here it is one thread out. I'm going to have to do a little minor fitting, I think, but it sure is looking good!!



What do you think? Everything works in this position, but the locking lug is pretty far in, and when the last thread is taken up, it would be even tighter. I think the barrel cylinder gap will be right about on....

Best Regards, Les
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