That is finer than frog's hair. A little tweeking and you've got a real winner. Thanks for sharing with us.

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Eccentric old coot

Thanks, Iggy, but if you hadn't called my attention to that barrel for sale, and if I hadn't seen your PM in time, I wouldn't be doing this right now. Also, if dacoontz hadn't sold the barrel, you wouldn't have seen it...so a big thanks to both of you guys, and all of the other folks who have encouraged me in this project.

As you say, a little more tweeking....

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Les,
Well it took us long enough since you first saw mine until we got it done, but I'm plumb tickled to see it finally happen. Besides, maybe now you'll quit drooling on mine.


You've got a winner there for sure.
I don't know as you're even going to have to refinish it.. It's just looking like an old warrior that's been to the mountain and back.

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Eccentric old coot

Nice presentation. Congrats..........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Les,

It looks like it was made that way, and looks great. All I can think is that a lot of old timers that carried those ole' hog legs after the war, wish they had yours!

I suggest shortening the extractor rod on the back end, otherwise you'll lose 1/3 of the mushroom knob. And of course the ctr pin from the front end.

Also you might want to swap the front locking bolt from the long barrel; you may have less adjustment to make to the Ext rod.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks for the tips, Jim!! I'm not going to do any more tonight, even though I'd like too, as I am getting sleepy, and don't want to make any mistakes. I've been doing a bunch of outdoor chores, and want to be able to focus on the "home stretch" here...

I agree with Iggy, I don't think that it is going to need to be refinished, the barrel blue actually matches the frame better than the photos show, and it just looks like it was always in this barrel length.

I love snubbies as you probably remember, all the way from my 3 1/2" N frame .357 down to my little 2" I and J frames. I have never really cared for longer barrels, even though I have a few.

But this just feels right to me, and is pretty much how I have envisioned this project turning out from the beginning, back last September, when I first aquired the Brazillian.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

If the barrel shoulder has to be turned down, MUST that be done on a lathe? Or, is there any other way if you don't have a metal lathe? I'm love'in watching this process.

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Jeb

Jeb,

The barrel shoulder needs to be true, perfectly square. Turning it down on a lathe is the way it's done.

However, the N frame barrel thread size is 36 TPI, therefore each thread turns the barrel one full turn. 1" divided by 36 = .029" per thread. For each full turn of the barrel, the barrel shoulder moves .029". So let's say the new barrel tightens up 1/4 turn from the front sight being straight up at 12 o'clock.

An additional 1/4 turn means that the barrel shoulder must be trimmed (.029" divided by 4) = .007". That's not very much. So an alternative is to remove .007" from the front of the frame. That can be filed and stoned off as long as the barrel seat on frame is kept square. So in the case of removing a very small amount, a lathe is not needed.

If you then turn the barrel tight, you can check the squareness of the frame by loosening the barrel and observe the barrel seat on front face of the frame. If the barrel shoulder has not scribed a mark all the way around the barrel hole, you know the frame hole face, the barrel shoulder, or both are not square.

NOTE: you can loosen factory installed barrels on new guns and sometimes find the scribed mark does not go all around the frame face, so they're not always perfect but shoot fine.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Well the frame opening at the barrel treads is convex with little metal to remove for the first 725 thousandths for a 1/4 turn. So would stoning with a couple of grits, squarely, not be the answer? The tricky bit would be keeping it square, free hand, wouldn't it?

I also know cylinder gap plays a roll. If you over close the gap, do you then stone the forcing cone?

Are crush washers never acceptable for installing a barrel?

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Jeb

The frame opening is convex??

No, crush wasjers are not used. There'd be a space between the barrel and the frame.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Just less frame material where it tapers down to meet the barrel sholder.

I'll watch and learn.

I have a BSR that I already have a snub barrel for & I'm just intensely curious.
Thanks as always for your help,

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Jeb

Hey, guys, I'm back!! Had to do some holiday stuff today, but was able to spend a little time working on my project. I know when I took that last photo last night, it looked like I was almost done!! Well, not really.

I took Hondo's advice and removed stock from the frame in order to get the barrel to "clock" correctly. As he noted in his post, I had to remove very little., but since I was hand filing, I used a technique that I used to use when fitting parts for muzzle loaders. I "smoked" the frame with the flame from an ordinary Bic lighter. Then screwed in the barrel hand tight, and then unscrewed it, and noted where the contact area was, and used the file to remove stock in that area. Thus, I was able to keep the frame square and flat.

Here's what it looked like with the "smoke" in place:



And here's what it looked like after the barrel had been screwed in and removed:



Then I would file down the high spots, and thus keep the work flat and square.

Once the barrel had been installed, and tightened down (and Hondo was correct in the ammount it needed to be fitted...it was about 1/4 turn out). I then had to file a very slight ammount from the breech end of the barrel in order to achieve the correct barrel cylinder gap. Actually, I have left it somewhat tighter than I intend, so that I can do a final polish with a stone. But it is open enough for function testing.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Continued.... After all this, I needed to remove some stock from the front locking lug face in order to allow the unaltered ejector rod to properly interact with the locking lug. I was able to use the existing lug, but it still protrudes too far forward, which does not affect function, but looks odd. As one of a number of final touches, I intend to shorten this for appearances sake. As I say, it works just fine.

Here is how the project looks now...similar to what you saw yesterday, but with many hours of (as Iggy says) "tweaking" invested.



I have gone into some detail, as I know that jebstuart and possibly others have shown an interest in the how and what of actually doing some of these tasks. I have been working on Smith and Wesson revolvers since the 1970s, and have some specialized tools that make some of these tasks a little simpler, but I am not a "gunsmith". I was trained as an "armorer", and have some skills that have helped me with this project, but I sure am grateful for all the support and advice from the S&W forum and SWCA folks.

I'll be back again, after I have cleaned up a few more details...for example, I will probably touch up the bare steel left after fitting with a little cold blue, and shorten that locking lug thingy, and still want to do a little final fitting of the elk stag stocks....

Oh yeah..... Most important, I'll be sure and post the results of a shooting test!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

The thing I like most about this one is that once the tweaking is done it will look like one S&W should have made. A beautiful gun!

What an outstanding tutorial Les, and heck of a good job. I remember now, reading about the old school British & American gunmakers using lamp-black and had forgotten it completely - good show! After watching your project, I think I'll forget about shortening my .455 barrel and start looking for a short one with a sight already on. Gotta figure out what will work.
Thanks again for doing this project on-line.

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Jeb

Great project, les.b. I've wanted to find an old 38/44 frame for a similar project for a long time. I've had a couple of 1917s and a TL over the years, but they were in too good a shape to modify. Even being in the PRK, I hope to run across an old donor before too much more time passes. You're doing some outstanding work there, pard.

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Dave Frost

Les,

Excellent work, bravo!

Great thought to relieve the back face of the barrel lug instead of making the ext rod a non-standard length!

Here'e another thought: shorten the back end of the front locking lug bolt so it doesn't stick out the front so far. That way the little spring won't be compressed so tightly when the cyl is closed, which is 99% of the time.

I used to use the soot method method and the blue machinist ink, now I use a black Sharpy felt tip pen.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Lookin' Good!!

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Eccentric old coot

Beautiful! You must go to a lot of BBQ's. :-)

Les,

I'm really liking it for sure !!!

Dave


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Not many BBQs here. Just Dave Keith bein' generous.

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Eccentric old coot

"I used to use the soot method method and the blue machinist ink, now I use a black Sharpy felt tip pen."

I've used one of my wife's old lipsticks.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Nice day out for a little function test. I have some of my .45 Auto Rim reloads here, which I load light in deference to my aging Webley MK VI, which has been shaved to use .45 ACP. Thought I'd try those, and then, if all went well, half a dozen standard Federal .45 ACP rounds.

All the rough fitting is done, and just a few final details left, and a couple of minor cosmetic issues to deal with....



Here's the six shot target at 10 yds:



I'm pretty pleased with that one!! Yes, I didn't realize that I had posted the target upside down until after I had shot it...the important thing is, that the gun shoots, and that it does so with decent accuracy.

I am pretty pleased with this group. The recipe is on the target. Very light, easy shooting load, and I really like it for older guns.

And finally, here is another (upside down) 10 yard target fired with 6 standard Federal FMJ 240 gr factory .45 ACP. Not quite as tight as the AR reloads, but I'll take it, and most important...the gun performed just like it was supposed to. Very happy with it.



Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

That one shoots as well as the one that started all of this.
You definitely built yourself a winner.


You can pack that rascal with confidence and pride.

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Eccentric old coot

Makes a guy tear up a little when a proud new Papa show around pictures of his new baby. I'm just tearing up cause I don't own that Baby! Outstanding job Les.

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Jeb

How about one more pic? The Auto Rim reloads I used to test fire are themselves "vintage"...sort of. I stumbled on a trove of the old "balloon head" Auto Rim brass about five years ago, and the load that I worked up is based on that case. Of course, modern cases are stronger, as the have considerably more brass in the head than the older ones, but I thought that it was appropriate for these older guns to use old brass for the (very moderate) loads. Here is a shot showing some of these vintage cases in use:



I also have quite a hoard of regular modern AR cases, and am careful not to mix them up.

By the way...Roy says that this Brazillian was shipped in July of 1938, so come the 4th of July, we'll have to be having an 80th Birthday Party for the old girl!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

So you've modified the frame to fit the new barrel (rather than modifying the non-original barrel). Can you still easily change back to the original configuration? Or do you now have to rework the original barrel in some manner, or modify the frame again?

Les, i hate to tell you this, but after re-reading this string before I fell asleep last nite, i dreamt that you sold me this modified 1917.
I'll make arrangements to meet you in Carmichaels to effect the transfer. We can shoot at my club afterwards, and I'll buy lunch .

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Welll, Tom, that seems to be the case. I removed probably less than Hondo's estimate of .007" from the face of the frame. To be honest, I don't plan to ever change back to the longer barrel, as I don't particularly like long barreled handguns. I do plan to keep all of the original parts, just in case someone in the future wishes to reinstall to original barrel for whatever reason.

I thought about your original dissent as I was following through on my long planned and publicly posted project. Not that I need permission to do what I wish with my own property, but in a sprit of trying to gain some consensus among fellow collectors and lovers of Smith and Wessons as to the ethics and practicality of the project. And the consensus seems to be that my project was successful, and not something that has destroyed a priceless treasure. I am happy with my decision, and I am extremely happy with the resulting gun. As a matter of fact, it may shoot better now, than it did before. I just noticed my target from before I did the conversion, but it was shot at a different distance.

One view of this subject would be that I rescued an uncared for revolver and gave it a new life!

But thank you for your honesty and your critique of my project. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on every subject, or approve of everything that I do.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

You need to talk with and feed Tom K. Apparently it's his revolver.

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Jeb

Thanks, Dave, coming from you, that is high praise indeed!! You were the guy that made Iggy's gun, that served as an inspiration for my project. I also have long admired your creation of so many other one of a kind masterpieces all of which appeal to my particular tastes.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Jim:

Thanks for your help and encouragement along the way!! I am extremely pleased with the gun that has emerged from this long process. Your advice and encouragement have meant a lot!!

Today when I shot it for the first time, I was just tIckled to death!! I now know that I can just shoot standard 45 ACP loads, which I have thousands of, but what I really like is that it does so well with my pet 45 AR load, which I can crank out in the shop whenever I like. I really like the AR best anyway.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

She's a beauty, les.b, and beyond serviceable. If I'm ever lucky enough to collect the parts I need to cobble together something similar, I hope I can even come close to your efforts. Very nice. Maybe if I keep after my wife (and my son decides to try to lateral to San Antonio PD), I'll get to Texas before I'm too damned old and get a project started before I'm too old to make it happen.

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Dave Frost

Iggy:

Thanks to you for getting the ball rolling by posting your short snouted.45, and for your encouragement along the way!! I'm very pleased with the result!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I have a chopped 1917 barrel in the ole parts box, guess I need to find a donor now....

Great project and the results speak for themselves. This is just upping the excitement factor for my own 45 snub project I'm looking to kick off soon.

That's a big part of it right there. Plenty of guns with character sit unused for various reasons. Why not turn them into permanent residents of the range bag/carry rotation?

Les,
You are really going to have something special when you finish. I'll give you my address so you will know where to send it when you tire of it!
Larry

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Miss My Buddy crsides!!

I'm looking for the front half of any chopped pre war N frame barrels if they still have the factory sight on them.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I should have bought two of the Brazilian 1917s when they were cheap.
I got one, intending to have a .45 ACP snubnose made. Started
shooting it and decided I liked it the way it was too much to have it
worked over. Added an Evans Wondersight and called it good.

Wow! This is the type of thread that keeps me coming back time after time to this forum. Outstanding work! The gun was cool before but you cranked the coolness factor up to ten with the mods.
Way beyond my abilities at this time but maybe in the future I can be as cool as you lol.

Yep, them short barreled .45's are kewl:

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Outstanding, Les! Just outstanding! Both your work accomplished as well as the targets. This project not only looks great, it works well! Pretty is as pretty does, so yours is twice pleasing! Congratulations!

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So long ... Ken

Just a wonderful job, you have great skill and patience. I'd like to see that in person if you return to the NE Ohio Bunch show in the fall.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

Les:

What a fun thread. Thanks a ton for sharing with the rest of us!!!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

One of my "Past Sins" (1960s) was have three different S&W Model 1917 .45acp revolver barrels cut to 4". At 15 and 25 yards the bullets would "Key Hole". Ammo was GI 230 grain FMJ and .45 acp 200 grain LSWC reloads.

Great job on the ole girl there Les. I been drooling over Iggys and Daves guns for quite a spell now. Looks like I'll have to save some for your little darl'n…. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks, Ken!!

I am very pleased with it. I still have just a little minor tweaking left to do, but it's good to go right now. Just a little more off the rear of the barrel, it's still just a little close fit to the cylinder. A few other details, and it's done. I may fit a couple of repro .5" S&W medallions to the elk stocks...still deciding on that...

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Jim, I believe I have a 1917 barrel that is bulged right over the lug. I'll try and find it in my parts box, if you are interested.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

That's a little (well maybe not so,little) beauty you made yourself there. I was kinda avoiding this thread 'cause I figured I'd wear out my like button.
I'm a sucker for a short barreled revolver.

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Keep on Chooglin'

Great job Les,

Since my background (long ago) was machining, I like good machine and assembly work. Enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Have a blessed day,

Leon